EP364 - The PPC Expert vs. The Client’s Gut Feeling ft Dean Kadi

Anu Adegbola (00:01.559)
Hello Dean, welcome to PPC Live the podcast.

Dean Kadi (00:04.846)
Thank you for having me. Hello.

Anu Adegbola (00:06.465)
It's such a pleasure and you know, I can't not ever thank our guests that come in, most of them on the fly, last minute, so there's no time to make sure we've got a fully polished story. We're gonna give you a real story today, another true real story about a mistake that Dean has come across.

dealing with annoying clients. actually think that it's been a while we've done a dealing with annoying client story. And I love those. Those are some of the spiciest ones. And you're like, yes, it just makes you, know, so this can be really cathartic for our guests. I'm really glad that Dean has decided to join us today. And yeah, and again, I was usually just rambling on without actually introducing you first. Our guest, Dean Kadi here is a fantastic head of paid growth at One Link Media.

I mean, they're a digital agent growth agency that's AI native, meaning that they're building to move faster and working smarter across both paid and organic, meaning they can, you know, free up their strategic thinking time and really bring amazing solutions for their clients. He specializes in building and scaling paid social programs that drive real business outcomes from awareness all the way through to conversion.

He's got a hands-on approach to strategy, creative and data. Dean actually helps brands cut through the noise and turn ad spend into measurable growth. Because yeah, it's all about the growth. It's all about making sure that we're taking care of our clients' budgets. He's also, you know, he's a Manchester local. Those who have gone to the events like Performance MCR that the very lovely Charlie Brennan runs would have seen him speak there. So he's...

really one of those that's very generous with his knowledge. And that's why, he's no surprise. It's no surprise that he'll be on a podcast like this because yeah, bread and butter is trying to figure out what's going on and making sure, you know, our industry is also keeping up to date with what we're doing well here. So yeah, welcome Dean. Thank you. Thank you for joining. And yeah, before we get into our story, one of my favorite bits, fun facts. What's your fun fact, Dean?

Dean Kadi (02:18.104)
Fun fact, I've actually got two fun facts for you because you know, I just like giving. So the first one is that I actually won a bronze medal at the age of seven in a karate tournament. I actually would have gotten hired but I was actually disqualified from the tournament because I broke my opponent's nose. So I was disqualified on points. Points are done on like a touch basis.

Anu Adegbola (02:31.468)
Nice.

Anu Adegbola (02:39.846)
No

Anu Adegbola (02:46.05)
Yeah

Dean Kadi (02:47.278)
And then, yeah, because I didn't mean to break his nose, but because it happened, I was disqualified. So that's number one. And number two, I actually completed the Sheffield half marathon in March in support of Ashgate Hospice. And I got a personal best of one hour and 53.

Anu Adegbola (02:50.547)
No, really? Really, are you sure?

Anu Adegbola (03:03.533)
times.

Anu Adegbola (03:06.923)
Amazing. So how long is a half marathon again?

Dean Kadi (03:10.318)
Half marathon is 21.1 km or something around that. I probably should know that number off the top of my head.

Anu Adegbola (03:16.149)
Yeah. Yeah.

Honestly, consider you've run it. You've ran the whole of it. Bless her. Yeah, I will always be impressed, but never tempted by those future marathons. you know, like good on you guys. It's a very like, i'm impressed it's such a stamina to just keep going. I'll start running and after five minutes, I'm like, my God, give me a cocktail. I'm done.

Dean Kadi (03:28.201)
Hahaha

Anu Adegbola (03:43.533)
So yeah amazing that you know you you did that and raise money. It's such an a fantastic way of giving back to different charities But yes, and I'm sure people will identify with that and as much as we're all about giving like this time We hear about listening and hearing about the mistakes that you know have been made

ever in the past and what should have been done differently. And I really actually like Dean's angle because yeah, we've done a lot and several people have come in said that this is what I did. This is what went wrong. But we also learn a lot from when we've dealt with, you know, being, our arms have been twisted by a client demanding something that they think that they know well. And this is really a true story of like, when you hire experts, listen to them.

Is that so hard clients, if you're listening to this episode, if you've hired an expert, listen to them, please. So even before we get started, there you guys, you have your lesson. even if you don't hear anything else, guys, listen to the experts you, you, you, you hire. So yeah, let's, let's, let's hand this over to our expert today. Dean. Yeah. What's the F up that you'd like to share today?

Dean Kadi (04:53.686)
Yeah. So as, as you've just mentioned, this is less about something that I've and more about a situation that was forced upon me and the agency. I'm watching it unfold in real time, knowing exactly what was going to happen. So we were working with, a premium premium brands. We'd spend months building out a proper UGC program for the client.

Anu Adegbola (05:09.707)
Mm-hmm.

Dean Kadi (05:24.206)
testing hooks, using different creators, formats, demos versus talking heads, writing the scripts, putting in some real graphs. And we've got some brilliant results on the account. We'd taken the account from like a 2.1 times ROAS to kind of between, hovering around the three to four range at this point in time. So we had 10 to 15 ads.

Anu Adegbola (05:48.973)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (05:53.647)
in the Meta account, all hitting above KPI. So some genuine winners and then out of nowhere, the client just asks us to pause all the ads that are running in Meta. No performance reason, no brand conflict. They just didn't want to run UGC anymore. So.

Anu Adegbola (06:15.029)
Okay. And on what platform is this running?

Dean Kadi (06:18.315)
So this is specific on meta. We were running Google ads, Microsoft ads and a couple of others, PPC ads, of course, not as visual heavy. So yeah, this is, this is in regards to meta.

Anu Adegbola (06:32.619)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Kadi (06:34.858)
So we won't give them a full explanation. think maybe someone internally wasn't a fan, but yeah, they just said, look, performance is great, but we want to be more heavily branded. We think rebrand needs to be featured more. So.

Anu Adegbola (06:52.333)
May I ask, are you allowed to say which, which brand this was? This company was really, is it a well-known brand?

Dean Kadi (06:58.862)
I mean it's somewhat well known. I have spoken about with Jamie before. It's actually a company called Rubio Monocoat.

Anu Adegbola (07:05.951)
Okay, alright. I've not heard of them. Who knows? Maybe others have.

Dean Kadi (07:09.684)
I may have not done my job well enough. I may be not part of the audience that we were trying to target.

Anu Adegbola (07:16.544)
Exactly. might not be. So what's the product? What is it that they're selling?

Dean Kadi (07:20.794)
So it's a premium wood oil. So it's like a wood finishing oil. It's like the final kind of coat that you put on there. If you're a hobbyist or professional or like really into woodworking, you would be quite familiar with the brand. But if you're not, probably not so much.

Anu Adegbola (07:24.085)
Okay. Yeah, sure.

Anu Adegbola (07:37.869)
Yeah, I'm not so that's it. You did your job well. I'm not the audience. It would be a shocker if I knew about that.

Dean Kadi (07:44.654)
See this is why you can't listen to Meta when they tell you to put on AirPlus targeting, right?

Anu Adegbola (07:50.421)
Honestly, honestly, right? Yeah, yeah. But go on, tell us. like how, like you guys had been running very good performance for like, you know, weeks, months kind of thing. and they just come, the client just had a meeting with like your manager, the head of your team going, we want to change things around. And what was their reasoning?

Dean Kadi (08:11.714)
So I was the head of the team at this point and it was actually quite casual for where they kind of brought it up. was like, yep, new content's great. And, you know, get into this a little further down the line in this conversation, but there was definitely delay in getting new creators signed off and scripts signed off and budgets for the creators. And then kind of one of the calls was like, yeah.

Anu Adegbola (08:13.963)
Sure.

Anu Adegbola (08:31.852)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dean Kadi (08:37.656)
We've been thinking about this actually and what we'd like to do is pause all the UGC ads and we've actually created you some ads that we'd like you to run. These were static ads, some carousel types and a couple of video but all very, very heavily branded, did not look native to the platform. If you looked at it, you would think I'm looking at an ad right now. Which puts a lot of people off.

Anu Adegbola (08:47.213)
you

Anu Adegbola (09:00.726)
No.

Anu Adegbola (09:04.375)
Yeah, yeah.

Dean Kadi (09:07.358)
And rightfully so, you know, want ads to feel native to the platform. So when we was given these videos, it wasn't just the content itself. was actually the messaging within the content. So the client had run a survey once and discovered that people liked them. Other people in this survey liked them because they had a large range of colours. And they kind of took this to mean

Anu Adegbola (09:09.023)
Yeah. Yes.

Anu Adegbola (09:22.155)
Mmm.

Anu Adegbola (09:33.089)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (09:37.109)
everybody likes the fact that they've got a lot of colors and that was like a core messaging point through our testing and the other kind of creative testing framework that I developed we discovered that the real or one of the main drivers of purchases was the fact that you actually only needed to apply one coat of this product so the time saving angle was actually the biggest USB because after you spent like a lot of time

Anu Adegbola (09:58.156)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (10:03.531)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (10:05.646)
I mean, I'm not much of a woodworker or decorator or anything myself, but I imagine the last thing you want to do after spending a lot of time on a project is spend even more time with a final layer.

Anu Adegbola (10:08.813)
You

Anu Adegbola (10:17.899)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Kadi (10:20.31)
So I've lost my beautiful content, I've worked so hard to put together and I've also lost my winning angle.

Anu Adegbola (10:28.587)
Yeah. So in that conversation, would you say, did you communicate that to the client? Were you like, guys, I know that you guys have, have, have come up with this imagery that you want to test. And one person has said that colors is your angle, but you, we have been testing this and it's cause that's the thing it's all about, you know, you'd hope a brand will want to listen to their customers and actually understand that. they,

Dean Kadi (10:30.348)
So.

Anu Adegbola (10:58.197)
So did they hear you? Did you tell them? And if you told them, what was their response to that?

Dean Kadi (11:03.756)
So I would say that I was heard but not listened to. It was more of a, yeah, well, you know, that may be the case, but we wanna see how this goes. And we'd prefer this to be a winner.

Anu Adegbola (11:16.045)
Hmm

Anu Adegbola (11:20.129)
Yeah, yeah. So they said that we'd prefer this to be a winner. Don't they realize that's not how it works? It's all about what's going on. my God, sorry. I'm just incredulous with this story.

Dean Kadi (11:22.088)
And in six.

Dean Kadi (11:31.885)
Well, this, this is the thing with PPC and even life in general, right? You know, you can want something as much as you'd like and it doesn't mean it's going to happen. So in this kind of situation, what I would advise people to do is back up your point. Don't back down. You know, don't argue with the client.

Anu Adegbola (11:38.038)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (11:42.709)
No. No.

Anu Adegbola (11:58.315)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (11:58.393)
But make your points heard, like you are the professional, you are the expert, you are being paid for your time, your knowledge, your skillset. And if they choose not to listen or to act against your best advice, what I would just kind of recommend is let the data talk, which is what we agreed to on the call. It's like, okay, you want this to happen. I don't think that's going to happen. No one else thinks this is going to happen, but

Anu Adegbola (12:02.636)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (12:06.381)
Okay, you know.

Anu Adegbola (12:17.612)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (12:21.356)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (12:27.468)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (12:29.794)
we'll try it and we'll see what the results are. Because I've learned in my time in this industry that that's just the best option. No matter how many emails you send or calls you go on or anything, you can just tell when people aren't going to change their mind. And it was more than just one person on the team that wanted to do that.

Anu Adegbola (12:30.721)
We'll try. Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (12:41.26)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (12:46.55)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (12:51.285)
Yeah, yeah. Some people are just like, literally, they're like, it's our budget. We are the ones that knows best. Like we want to do this. So go, you know, just going ahead. I think one thing, a little add I'll make to, you know, for people listening, in terms of like, yeah, you're right. You know, don't argue, but make sure you're very firm with your point. Make sure you also get all that in writing. Don't, you know, you know, write it down, make sure it's clear so that they can come back and be like, well,

Dean Kadi (13:14.881)
Yes.

Anu Adegbola (13:21.143)
We didn't understand what you were trying to tell us, blah, blah. You know, make sure it's in black and white that you've advised against this new idea they're coming with that you know was gonna fail. Yeah, yeah, that must have been really annoying. So how quickly did it take for it to be clear that their new idea had tanked?

Dean Kadi (13:43.673)
The signs were quite obvious to myself within the first couple of days, really. I think when launching new ads and meta, you you've got the learning phase and you always know your first kind of seven to 10 days aren't really going to be great. mean, kind of around a 14 day mark, you kind of got an idea of where performance is going and...

Anu Adegbola (13:59.552)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (14:07.564)
Mm.

Dean Kadi (14:11.832)
think the whole kind of situation actually went on for about eight weeks or so, which is quite disheartening for our team as well. Because the kind of work that we put in to build those great numbers and KPIs had kind of come undone and letting the data talk is great and the data doesn't get any better.

Anu Adegbola (14:15.614)
gosh. gosh.

Anu Adegbola (14:23.637)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (14:32.94)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (14:41.044)
that's not so great. So the account continued to stall out. However, it was just on Meta The other platforms where things hadn't changed were still tick along as well, which did alleviate some of the stress, but it is kind of pointing more towards the problem of being like, well, we know what's going wrong on this specific platform and we have the answer to get it right again. You're just not allowing us to showcase that. But

Anu Adegbola (14:42.41)
No.

Anu Adegbola (14:45.847)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (14:52.193)
nights.

Anu Adegbola (14:57.698)
Mm.

Anu Adegbola (15:09.378)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (15:10.19)
Of course, it's not just case of letting the ads run and then hoping for the best. Even when you know it's bad, there's still things you can do. One of the things that we did was try it out to various different audiences, interests, interest-based targeting, A +, different kinds of group targeting, lookalikes. So there are still levers that you can pull.

Anu Adegbola (15:14.647)
Mm.

Anu Adegbola (15:18.966)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (15:24.46)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (15:32.0)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (15:36.96)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (15:37.679)
We didn't get excellent performance. got slightly better performance. And then after a couple of weeks of this, when it was kind of clear, it wasn't going anywhere else. And we'd use the proper content that had given us and, you know, we'd shown the metrics. It's not just a case about showing the data. It's using that data to tell a story. So when we're like, look, these ads ran for 14 days and we're achieving, you know, a cost per purchase.

Anu Adegbola (15:41.089)
Mmm.

Anu Adegbola (15:56.877)
Mmm.

Dean Kadi (16:05.422)
at this price versus these have been running the same, same amount of time, but this cost price is like five times, four times. Like this is quite telling and it's not just one set or one ad set or one campaign. It's multiple of these and using all those to tell that story.

Anu Adegbola (16:08.748)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (16:18.37)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (16:23.233)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like it's just, it's just really important to that people see like what an integrated strategy and how it's important to make sure all the different levers, all the different things are working, you know, together and working well together and not to mess that up. Do you feel like though, cause one thing that I am very big on, you know, on, on, on communicating that people don't get how

campaigns work, different channels work together. So if one channel starts, you know, badly performing, you might see that your Google campaign, even though it's meta that change your Google campaign starts failing. Did you, did you, do you feel like your Google ads also started being, was dragging back a little bit, but there was no good reason for it to be dragging back apart from what meta? Yeah.

Dean Kadi (17:16.312)
So that is really common, but in this case, we actually didn't see much of that. And that's mainly due to the fact that Google were running primarily brand campaigns. Meta was for prospecting. I think a lot of people can relate to this, but using Google for prospecting premium products is really isn't ideal.

Anu Adegbola (17:30.945)
Okay.

Dean Kadi (17:44.886)
So yeah, with those campaigns being most of branded, we didn't really see too much of a change in performance there.

Anu Adegbola (17:52.095)
All right. And like you didn't change and you said, again, you didn't change any of the creative of the Google campaigns. They stayed the same with all the really good creatives that you put into test. Amazing. So tell us how, how, when the performance apps, what point did the client then go? You said it took him eight weeks for it to turn around. Did you guys stop it or did they admit?

Dean Kadi (18:01.91)
Yeah, that's correct.

Anu Adegbola (18:23.021)
Hmm?

Dean Kadi (18:23.178)
Sorry, can you repeat? think we had technical snag.

Anu Adegbola (18:26.071)
Yeah, there's a little bit of technical possibly a delay. I'm hoping. Can you hear me? Okay. All right. Great. I'm hoping that has been better. It's looks like it's uploading stuff. Don't worry. We'll edit stuff out. But like what I went to, what I was asking was, has did the clients, you know, turning things around, it took eight weeks for me to turn around. Did the client admit?

Dean Kadi (18:33.303)
Yes.

Anu Adegbola (18:54.626)
They proposed the wrong strategy. At what point, what then led to them going, OK, let's stop it. Let's go back to what was working well.

Dean Kadi (19:04.146)
So again, I think most people can relate to this, but I can count on one hand the amount of times a client has said they'd made a wrong decision or they'd made a mistake. I think it was alluded to that they may have made a poor decision.

Anu Adegbola (19:13.405)
Here I go.

Anu Adegbola (19:17.581)
Mm.

Anu Adegbola (19:23.765)
alluded.

Dean Kadi (19:26.082)
But no, all a great team over there. So yeah, we got the data and we sat down across meetings and you you your weekly reports and your monthly reports. It's like, almost two months of data here and we're down. It's not getting better. We've tried to be creative. You've asked us to use, let's start testing some of the previous creative we had in there. Start getting some of those old ad campaigns back on.

Anu Adegbola (19:49.325)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (19:55.695)
and switching back and we'll see how much of a performance impact this has.

Anu Adegbola (20:00.706)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (20:04.05)
And within, again, two weeks, it was really clear that the UGC was right call.

Anu Adegbola (20:12.907)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That came back two weeks in. We're back. We're back on track. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yeah. And I know you've given some already, like if someone is going through this and they, know, they've just come and received the call, you know, being told by client, we're going to turn off all your good work. We're going to bring something in. What's your advice to them?

Dean Kadi (20:19.554)
We're so back.

Dean Kadi (20:38.646)
I'd say firstly, don't make it personal with a client. If you don't understand why a decision is being made, just ask, you know, even if the answer is uncomfortable, because the numbers will eventually say what you couldn't and you won't be ready to have that.

Anu Adegbola (20:43.074)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (20:49.291)
Hmm.

Anu Adegbola (20:56.427)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (20:59.116)
Conversation from a place of evidence and not emotion. I'd say in the meantime, keep your data clean and just document everything from a moment that's when it feels off.

Anu Adegbola (21:02.093)
Mm.

Anu Adegbola (21:10.209)
Yeah. Yeah. Document anything. what has that, what for you, like, has that, has that ever happened again before? that, is that, is that, is there another client that has, has been like that with you?

Dean Kadi (21:28.264)
Not to the kind of same extent, but you always have these kind of battles with clients, especially if they've got some marketing experience themselves. You know, you're part of an agency and you're leading the strategy. Of course, people always want to have input and suggest ideas. But I...

Anu Adegbola (21:35.307)
Hmm.

Anu Adegbola (21:42.113)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (21:49.185)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (21:54.103)
kind of use the same framework that I did with that client, which is make sure the points I heard agree that if you really want to try, you can try it or go with a limited budget perhaps and kind of take it from there. Or what I tend to do is I put a lot of time into researching and putting docs and emails together.

Anu Adegbola (22:01.367)
Mm.

Anu Adegbola (22:09.9)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (22:22.03)
I think everyone in my team knows I love a doc. I do love putting a doc together. I love a bit of research. So I will put together a one page or two page in, but look, you've requested this. I don't think it's the best idea or elements of it are good, but I think we could tweak things slightly. Putting that in together into a doc, sharing your thoughts across and asking for a call to go through that. A lot of the time when people suggested a thought or idea, they may have not put too much thought into that.

Anu Adegbola (22:24.298)
Okay.

Nice.

Anu Adegbola (22:51.148)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (22:51.816)
have considered the consequences of that which is my job to do so when you can kind of explain that with potential downsides and potential negatives then it's great. I also do the same if someone suggests an idea that I think is great as well so yeah if it's good idea I've gone away I've a bit more research done some planning here's what I think will work here's what we maybe need to adjust here's the plan going forward.

Anu Adegbola (22:56.13)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (23:05.708)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (23:11.757)
and

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That sounds like a great idea. and yeah, I think that's a good place to like leave that story with us about making sure we document everything, you know, making sure that it's, you know, you, you, you're, very good at just communicating with the client, but don't make it personal. I like that. No, they may don't make it personal. It's their money after all, if they want to tank it, you know, as long as you've given your advice that you could, you know, let them.

do what they want to do. All right. Thank you so much, for sharing that story. We're now going to go to another part of the show of kind of putting the spotlight into with other accounts and other mistakes that you've seen. mean, technically you did share more like an agency making mistake, but like maybe like things in terms of like set up, account setups that you've seen in terms of when your agency has one account or you just started working on a client.

Dean Kadi (24:00.591)
.

Anu Adegbola (24:13.377)
what are some mistakes that you're like, it's really shocking you that those kinds of things are still happening.

Dean Kadi (24:20.268)
I think number one, pixel setup, not having your pixel set up correctly for any platform and not tracking the correct data and events. Huge, huge mistake.

Anu Adegbola (24:24.46)
Okay.

Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (24:33.195)
Yeah. What goes, what goes wrong? What, what's the, do you get pixel set up wrong?

Dean Kadi (24:42.048)
You'd be quite surprised to be honest. I think pixel installation is just something that

you either as a paid person you're either like super up for it and you can install lot of pixels and it doesn't really give you much issues or it's more of a technical thing that you'd rather have like a technical person kind of do it like maybe a CRO person or someone who handles your server management that kind of thing.

Anu Adegbola (25:05.045)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But what are the most common mistakes in the pixel setup that you see going wrong?

Dean Kadi (25:18.258)
not having server-side tracking, not having enhanced conversions, just, yeah, having the wrong events set up, particularly in meta, due to their naming conventions, I've seen people just not tracking the correct metrics, or they think they are, but it's not.

Anu Adegbola (25:21.261)
Okay.

Anu Adegbola (25:36.671)
anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that kind of task I'll definitely give to someone more technical. I think I, I will probably assume that I've got it right, but I'll just not be sure. And it's probably doing the wrong thing. yeah, I think those kinds of things, if you're not a hundred percent sure, give it to someone who's a hundred percent sure, or make sure at least you run it by someone who's a hundred percent sure about how it gets set up so that they can be like, okay, this is what I've done. Can you double check that I did the right thing?

Cause yeah, tracking is everything. You can set up an amazing campaign, put a great setup together. If you're not tracking the right thing and you're not proving conversion of revenue to your client, might as well have wasted your whole time doing that whole setup. yeah, make sure that all your efforts don't go for noughts by, you know, messing up pixel tracking. yeah, no very...

Very important point. And how about in terms of AI? We said in your introduction, in your bio that, you know, your agency, you guys are very AI native, you know, kind of ways of setting up. So, but like, what are some mistakes of doing, of, of relying on AI even that we're making, at the moment that people should be wary of?

Dean Kadi (26:52.142)
I'd say number one is using it to do more of a wrong thing faster. AI won't fix a bad brief or a bad strategy. It'll just scale it. The thinking still has to come first. The tool is only as good as the direction you give it. So you need to really think about what you're asking it, the prompts, kind of data that you're feeding it and being...

Anu Adegbola (26:57.281)
Okay?

Anu Adegbola (27:03.873)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (27:11.052)
Yeah.

Dean Kadi (27:18.27)
Just not taking the first answer and also quizzing it and yourself and your strategy. Run it through multiple times, ask various questions, sense check yourself.

Anu Adegbola (27:26.421)
Yeah. Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (27:33.451)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Making sure that you're sensor checking things. And I feel like another aspect that has been more, more prevalent, I've been hearing more about more recently, which I'm like so in agreement and follows on very nicely from what you've just said is the fact that the AI is not accountable. So if you get, if you get things wrong and, know, just think that everything's going to be correct and you've just, you just take AI, you know, as, as, as Bible gospel and send it to your client.

They're not going to be like, we understand that it's wrong because it was AI. They're going to be like, how dare you show this to us? That's why you, you'll get fired. AI doesn't lose, lose income. You're one that's going to lose income.

Dean Kadi (28:12.064)
It's so true. It says it at the bottom of the screen. For example, Claude is AI and can make mistakes. Please double check responses. It will also just agree with whatever you say because they want to keep you on there. So ask it or tell it. Don't just agree with me. Or am I being balanced here? Ask those kind of questions and dig down a little deeper.

Anu Adegbola (28:25.259)
Nah. Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (28:39.917)
Yeah, it's it's and it's one of the things it's used as your discretion. I don't know why all of a sudden I was thinking of cigarette packets and it's warnings and it's like smoking kills. Sometimes they show you a very graphic image. You know, I said it, it's make your own choices here. Guys make sensible choices. Claude is not, they're not going to take accountability for your mistakes about using your, their, the output from AI, however you want to use it. So.

Dean Kadi (28:49.462)
Mm-hmm.

It's like, hey, we said it. We said it.

Anu Adegbola (29:09.717)
Yeah, be careful. Be careful in that area. Okay, well, look, Dean, this has been a fantastic conversation. We've gone through the different aspects, given us a great story, given us some mistakes that you've seen in our industry. Yes, guys, set up your pixel properly and with AI, you know, handle with care, listen to the warnings, pay attention to the warnings, and make sure you use it what it's supposed to be used for. It's not supposed to replace your brain. Use your brain.

when you're using AI and make sure that you're, the people who are getting the output of your work, recognize your brain work in what they're seeing. So yeah, all of that is definitely very important. But yeah, we're gonna come to a close here, but before we leave you just one last question, never very fun, know, like not really PPC question. If your PPC career were a movie, what would the title be?

Dean Kadi (30:01.62)
Heat. Heat.

Anu Adegbola (30:02.849)
Heat, okay, why Heat? Explain that with us. You came up with that very straight and strong.

Dean Kadi (30:09.486)
I'm just cooking that full gas, you know, I'm bringing that heat, yeah.

Anu Adegbola (30:12.11)
really?

Anu Adegbola (30:15.649)
That's good. Are your clients enjoying the heat? You feel.

Dean Kadi (30:18.67)
My clients love the heat. And if you guys want to know more about what I do and what I'm doing, I am documenting my journey, documenting my clients journeys. can follow me on Instagram and TikTok, dean.kadi. I'm sure Anu will feature that somewhere.

Anu Adegbola (30:35.51)
Nice.

Lovely. We'll share the links. Absolutely. We'll share the links. We'll feature it. And yeah, if you're listening to this from, you're seeing this clip from Instagram and TikTok, hi, please go to podcast.ppc.live and follow us on our journey and you know, see more of the other excellent stories like Dean has shared here about, you know, mistakes that are happening in the industry. are, they they so are. Why I really think this conversation is really important is because

There's so much development and you know, AI and updates and new features and everything that you should be doing. And that's why the PPC live events happen. You know, we're going to be talking about AI workflows at the next event. We're going to be talking about, you know, DSA leaving, what are the checklists that you should make, really the practical steps on what you should be doing. so yeah, I'm hoping you guys joined that and I hope you've learned a lot from Dean.

here today, he will be at some other events where it's where he will have to be tight-lipped at the moment as to where he's going to be speaking at. But look out, try follow him on his journey as he shares out on Instagram and TikTok. I'm sure he'll drop new information as to where you can see him speaking again before the end of the year. But yeah, apart from that, thank you so much, for joining today. yeah, I'm sure we'll catch up soon.

Dean Kadi (31:55.437)
Thank you for having me. Cheers, guys.