EP259 - Adventures in Conversion Tracking in 2023

1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,200
Hello and welcome to this week's
episode of the PPC Chat Roundup.

2
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:08,920
In today's episode, we have
Julie leading us on a talk about

3
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,640
adventures in conversion
tracking in 2023.

4
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,920
So, AKA, how are you dealing
with GA Four and all the issues

5
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,080
that's throwing your way?
Yeah, I can imagine a lot of us

6
00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:23,200
are in that hole.
What the heck is going on in

7
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,530
terms of conversion tracking?
And yeah, if you're in that

8
00:00:26,650 --> 00:00:29,090
camp, this episode is for you.
I hope you listen.

9
00:00:29,090 --> 00:00:31,290
I hope you enjoy and realize
you're not alone.

10
00:00:31,730 --> 00:00:36,450
And for those who are finding
GA4 or Breeze, or those who have

11
00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:40,170
just decided not to use GA4 and,
you know, dealing with

12
00:00:40,210 --> 00:00:43,570
completely different issues or
just not having any issues at

13
00:00:43,570 --> 00:00:48,170
all, well, be empathetic and
listen to how the other side are

14
00:00:48,170 --> 00:00:50,290
doing.
But whichever side you're on, I

15
00:00:50,290 --> 00:00:51,840
hope you.
Enjoy.

16
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,120
Learn something takes a great
take away.

17
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,400
Maybe think about how you could
be doing things better in terms

18
00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,160
of conversion tracking for your
clients.

19
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:12,030
So yeah, sit back and enjoy.
Hello, and a warm welcome to

20
00:01:12,030 --> 00:01:16,030
this episode of the PPC Chat
Wound Up podcast, where I round

21
00:01:16,030 --> 00:01:19,230
up the Twitter discussion that
happens on Tuesdays at 5:00 PM

22
00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:21,380
GMT.
I'm your host Anu and I'm

23
00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:24,380
recording from my studio here in
London, UK and I use this

24
00:01:24,380 --> 00:01:27,900
platform to share not just
expert but also my ideas and

25
00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,380
considered best practices about
paid media and the direction the

26
00:01:31,380 --> 00:01:34,580
digital industry is going in.
So if you want to keep up to

27
00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:37,580
date with my tips and tricks in
the industry and get the latest

28
00:01:37,820 --> 00:01:40,260
on the podcast that has been
called your go to.

29
00:01:40,540 --> 00:01:43,740
If you don't make it to the PPC
chat, live discussions and even

30
00:01:43,740 --> 00:01:46,460
if you do, then like, follow,
share and retweet.

31
00:01:46,460 --> 00:01:50,140
And that's right, Twitter still
on Twitter, although I'm also on

32
00:01:50,140 --> 00:01:53,660
treads so you can check me out
on there as well on the same

33
00:01:53,660 --> 00:01:57,940
handle which is the marketing
annu or join our LinkedIn group

34
00:01:57,940 --> 00:02:01,500
which is the PPC chat roundup.
Or if you're on Instagram, why

35
00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:03,540
don't you check us out at PPC
Chat on.

36
00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:06,660
Just call Roundup to get quotes
and snippets from previous

37
00:02:06,660 --> 00:02:09,020
episodes.
So yeah, we have Julie Bercini

38
00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:12,780
taking us on a very lively chat
about adventures in conversion

39
00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:16,820
tracking in 2023.
So basically, how are we dealing

40
00:02:16,820 --> 00:02:19,140
with the big change that we've
had?

41
00:02:19,420 --> 00:02:22,700
I don't think everybody, not
everybody had a bad time of it.

42
00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,340
Somebody actually put a tweet on
saying what are the issues that

43
00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:27,420
you're having with G A4, how
you're dealing with GA Four?

44
00:02:27,420 --> 00:02:30,700
And some people were like
actually smoother, gives more

45
00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:33,300
reliable data in terms of
performance.

46
00:02:33,580 --> 00:02:36,220
So yeah, I hope you are in that
this campaign you're just

47
00:02:36,220 --> 00:02:38,740
listening out of empathy.
But for those who are struggling

48
00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:41,660
with it, I hope you learn
something that takes some great

49
00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:45,380
takeaways on doing paid search
better and doing not just paid

50
00:02:45,380 --> 00:02:49,260
search, doing conversion
tracking better, usual, PSA is

51
00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:50,580
says.
Before we get into the

52
00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:54,300
questions, this chat is intended
for PPC professionals of all

53
00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,140
levels and if you have something
you want to share, please do.

54
00:02:57,140 --> 00:02:59,180
We are a friendly and supportive
community.

55
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,600
Please don't be afraid to
participate.

56
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,280
But also Lurkers and the
listeners of the podcast are

57
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,640
most certainly always welcome.
So yeah, a little bit of A roll

58
00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:10,880
call.
We have quite a few people that

59
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,200
joined the chat today.
We had Napa Hopkins as well as

60
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,920
Sean Ellie.
Amit Cabra joins us as well.

61
00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:20,040
Sophie Logan, a dear friend of
mine as well as of PPC Live UK.

62
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,800
And yeah, I'm sure more people
and Chris Ridley as well and

63
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,720
more people join the chat.
But yeah, let's get into our

64
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,580
questions for today.
Julie goes, what types of

65
00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:32,580
convergent actions are you
currently tracking in your PPC

66
00:03:32,580 --> 00:03:36,340
campaigns and what methods do
you use to track the conversion?

67
00:03:36,340 --> 00:03:40,700
So are we saying G, A4, Google
ad, third party tool, et cetera?

68
00:03:41,180 --> 00:03:44,020
Management starts us off saying
we typically use Google Ads

69
00:03:44,020 --> 00:03:47,620
tracking pixels directly,
sometimes using a third party

70
00:03:47,620 --> 00:03:51,780
cash tracking tool.
I've never liked using Google

71
00:03:51,780 --> 00:03:55,260
Analytics for ads convergent
tracking, brand singer goes, why

72
00:03:55,260 --> 00:03:57,020
is that?
Have you seen one work better

73
00:03:57,020 --> 00:03:59,770
than the other?
Ray Bassett responds saying wide

74
00:03:59,770 --> 00:04:02,570
variety of actions including
phone calls, phone clicks,

75
00:04:02,610 --> 00:04:06,090
e-mail clicks, form fills,
meetings, scheduled clinic

76
00:04:06,370 --> 00:04:08,610
bookings start check out
e-commerce.

77
00:04:08,610 --> 00:04:12,530
If I can use a GA tag I will,
but it's not always possible.

78
00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:16,690
So G A4 meta Pixel events or
flight events enhanced and

79
00:04:16,690 --> 00:04:19,209
hotspot.
A John response saying that I

80
00:04:19,209 --> 00:04:22,570
leveraged a lot of different
conversion actions purchase.

81
00:04:23,010 --> 00:04:27,050
Form fills being the most
common, I try to utilize Google

82
00:04:27,050 --> 00:04:31,410
Ads tags fired through GTM most
often when possible and he

83
00:04:31,410 --> 00:04:35,450
continues saying one nice new
feature with G A4 imported ads

84
00:04:35,450 --> 00:04:40,250
is selecting how you want
outside channels attributed and

85
00:04:40,250 --> 00:04:43,490
he gives a link to a Google
article about selecting

86
00:04:43,530 --> 00:04:46,690
attribution settings.
I'll put that in the show notes.

87
00:04:47,490 --> 00:04:50,130
Now the Hopkins then responds to
question one saying I'm going to

88
00:04:50,130 --> 00:04:54,850
start with primary actions. i.e.
the ones that count 1 calls over

89
00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:59,570
180 seconds, 2 calls from the
website, three form fills, 4

90
00:04:59,570 --> 00:05:05,170
checkout, 5 start trial or lower
value. 6 pain customer which is

91
00:05:05,170 --> 00:05:08,690
higher value with enhanced
conversions and seven chats,

92
00:05:08,730 --> 00:05:11,530
mostly legal things, she
continues.

93
00:05:11,860 --> 00:05:14,820
Going yeah, when it comes to
social ads, I'm a little more

94
00:05:14,820 --> 00:05:18,940
forgiving on the convergence
because they need so many for

95
00:05:18,940 --> 00:05:22,340
their algorithms to function.
The core ones are still there.

96
00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:25,860
I tend to default to GA for
events when there's at least 60

97
00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:30,340
days of trusted data, otherwise
ad network and she finishes

98
00:05:30,340 --> 00:05:34,690
saying primarily convergence.
Should be 10 million percent

99
00:05:34,850 --> 00:05:37,450
trustworthy.
I tend to test the validity of

100
00:05:37,450 --> 00:05:40,010
conversion tracking with
secondary actions as well as

101
00:05:40,010 --> 00:05:42,570
tracking little steps like add
to cart.

102
00:05:42,570 --> 00:05:45,210
And then we have Sophie Logan
responding to question one

103
00:05:45,210 --> 00:05:49,130
saying contact form submissions
and free trial signups as

104
00:05:49,130 --> 00:05:52,260
primary conversions.
Then other actions such as

105
00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:56,460
webinar and newsletter sign ups
as secondary conversions, GA 4

106
00:05:56,460 --> 00:05:59,620
is what we use and they provide
a deeper level of performance

107
00:05:59,620 --> 00:06:03,340
analysis via their CRM reports,
she continues.

108
00:06:03,340 --> 00:06:06,940
This is our SAS clients who have
stripped back their Cta's and

109
00:06:06,940 --> 00:06:11,300
don't have the option for calls
or purchases directly through

110
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:14,540
their website And we have Julie
as well responding to question

111
00:06:14,540 --> 00:06:18,220
one saying since I'm a lead Gen.
PPC of my accounts track form

112
00:06:18,220 --> 00:06:20,640
fills.
And phone calls as conversion

113
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,960
actions have been using the
Google ads conversion tagging

114
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,280
rather than importing from
analytics for a while in

115
00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:30,480
anticipation of GA four being a
mess.

116
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,200
And then yeah Sean, early
response to question one as well

117
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,440
saying it depends on the
account.

118
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,240
We do a lot of ecom so revenue
and transactions are the biggies

119
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,320
for for a few clients that have
very long bind cycles, we track

120
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,080
micro conversions and assign
them values based on historical

121
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,550
CVR and AOV.
Julian gives her question 5

122
00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:54,790
saying the big question, have
you encountered any issues with

123
00:06:54,790 --> 00:06:57,910
conversion tracking lately?
If so, on which platforms and

124
00:06:57,910 --> 00:07:00,470
what did you do to try to solve
it?

125
00:07:00,990 --> 00:07:04,110
And before we get to the
answers, question to amid Kabra

126
00:07:04,110 --> 00:07:06,470
response saying depends on the
client, but the focus is

127
00:07:06,470 --> 00:07:09,270
whatever the macro conversion
points is.

128
00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:12,950
So lead purchase, download of
white paper, et cetera, we use

129
00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:16,190
GTM to set up the events and
then analytics from there.

130
00:07:16,630 --> 00:07:18,990
And Julie as well answers
question one saying we have not

131
00:07:18,990 --> 00:07:22,590
heard anything about Google's
one conversion tag to roll them

132
00:07:22,590 --> 00:07:25,190
all either.
Remember when they talked about

133
00:07:25,190 --> 00:07:29,150
that at GML, so Google marketing
live not a peep on that even

134
00:07:29,150 --> 00:07:32,270
with GA4 taking over.
And then Sean early responds to

135
00:07:32,270 --> 00:07:35,870
question two saying the whole UA
not sun setting even though they

136
00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:39,310
had a doomsday clock caused
issues for a couple of clients.

137
00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:43,130
Not great that it was a Friday,
but other than that, I think G

138
00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:47,250
A4 actually made us clean up
conversions better than they

139
00:07:47,250 --> 00:07:49,530
were.
You see, yeah, some people did

140
00:07:49,530 --> 00:07:53,450
find use in GA four, I mean
caber response question 2/2 as

141
00:07:53,450 --> 00:07:56,490
well seen only when clients
redevelop their sites without

142
00:07:56,490 --> 00:07:59,250
telling us and remove the GTM
container.

143
00:07:59,650 --> 00:08:03,090
Julie goes, haven't so many of
us been there unfortunately, I

144
00:08:03,090 --> 00:08:05,530
mean goes we've had it happen
three times this month.

145
00:08:06,010 --> 00:08:08,890
So it's fresh annoyance for me
three times in one month.

146
00:08:08,930 --> 00:08:12,130
I hope that's three different
clients and not the same client

147
00:08:12,130 --> 00:08:14,970
repeatedly doing there, because
after that the third time

148
00:08:14,970 --> 00:08:17,170
they're doing it on purpose.
That's no mistake.

149
00:08:17,900 --> 00:08:19,900
Chris Redley responds to
question two saying yes.

150
00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:23,580
GA4 seems to be showing funny
data with organic mixed with

151
00:08:23,580 --> 00:08:27,380
Google or CPC within the paid
search channel group.

152
00:08:27,740 --> 00:08:30,660
We're opting for website
conversion tracking directly

153
00:08:30,660 --> 00:08:34,020
into our ad platforms to allow
us to better understand the last

154
00:08:34,020 --> 00:08:37,460
click conversion volume.
Sophie Logan responds to

155
00:08:37,460 --> 00:08:40,100
question two saying we've had a
lot of teething issues while

156
00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:43,299
switching to GA4.
Unfortunately this has been due

157
00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:47,270
to our clients internal teams.
Handling, setting up tracking

158
00:08:47,270 --> 00:08:50,350
and their lack of knowledge or
quality checking, it's so

159
00:08:50,350 --> 00:08:53,030
difficult when you can't just
fix them yourself.

160
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:55,870
And Julie also responds to that
saying GA four is most

161
00:08:55,870 --> 00:08:59,070
definitely not just put this
tiny bit of code in the head

162
00:08:59,070 --> 00:09:03,190
section of all your sites pages
simple like Universal Analytics

163
00:09:03,190 --> 00:09:05,430
was.
And so because absolutely not.

164
00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:08,390
Especially when you throw in
those cross domain conversion

165
00:09:08,390 --> 00:09:12,070
parts and iframes.
Oh Lord iframes sweet Moses,

166
00:09:12,070 --> 00:09:14,710
that's awful.
So yeah, that means a client is

167
00:09:14,710 --> 00:09:18,350
using iframes, Hate iframes,
Ashton Clark responds to

168
00:09:18,350 --> 00:09:20,430
question One is saying.
Yeah, most of my clients are

169
00:09:20,430 --> 00:09:23,830
fixed on lead Gen. or bTB, so we
mainly track form submissions

170
00:09:23,830 --> 00:09:27,430
and phone calls if relevant.
Methods kind of vary depending

171
00:09:27,430 --> 00:09:30,310
on the website or client, but
historically we've tried to use

172
00:09:30,310 --> 00:09:33,310
imports from Google.
Analytics when possible for the.

173
00:09:33,310 --> 00:09:37,170
Google Ads tags.
Now our response to question two

174
00:09:37,410 --> 00:09:40,690
is saying, yeah, almost all my
glitches have been ecom related.

175
00:09:40,690 --> 00:09:43,930
For the most part.
It's it's discrepancies in the

176
00:09:43,930 --> 00:09:47,770
shopping platform versus G A4
versus the ad network reported

177
00:09:48,050 --> 00:09:51,210
conversions vastly under
reporting on the Google side.

178
00:09:51,450 --> 00:09:54,970
My suspicion is that there's a
privacy compliance issue.

179
00:09:55,410 --> 00:09:57,850
I also responded to question two
saying, yeah, my clients are

180
00:09:57,850 --> 00:10:01,170
having issues with conversions
being double counted and they

181
00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:03,450
are still using G A4 to sort
that out and I think they've

182
00:10:03,450 --> 00:10:05,190
come up with a solution.
For it.

183
00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:07,710
But yeah, they were seeing
double conversions, double

184
00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:09,670
revenue and lots of inflated
numbers.

185
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:13,550
So that was like, you know, one
of those things that you thought

186
00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:16,870
they were really great numbers.
But actually, yeah, like April

187
00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:19,590
fools come late.
Julie then gives us question

188
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:20,390
three saying do.
You.

189
00:10:20,390 --> 00:10:23,550
Find some platforms are better
at or easier to track

190
00:10:23,550 --> 00:10:26,790
conversions on.
If so, which are better and

191
00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:29,390
worse and why.
Managing response to question

192
00:10:29,390 --> 00:10:32,590
three saying anytime there is a
built in integration, that's my

193
00:10:32,590 --> 00:10:35,440
choice.
Bassett responsing I used to say

194
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,160
hotspot is easy and I like their
new enhanced conversion events

195
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,840
by recently.
But recently a client replaced

196
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,440
buttons on their sites with
hotspot Cta's that link to

197
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,960
emails tracking nightmare.
My usual method of tracking the

198
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,480
mail to doesn't work and the
lead is not in hotspot.

199
00:10:55,070 --> 00:10:56,750
And then, yeah, shown earlier
response to question three

200
00:10:56,750 --> 00:10:59,230
saying I'm comfortable with GTM
and like the debugging

201
00:10:59,230 --> 00:11:02,190
possibilities.
So I like tracking through GA

202
00:11:02,190 --> 00:11:06,070
and then importing Nava Hopkins
responds to question three

203
00:11:06,070 --> 00:11:09,150
saying shout out to Mfst ad
support.

204
00:11:09,150 --> 00:11:12,110
So that's Microsoft ad support
and that's a handle.

205
00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:16,430
I said Mfst ad support.
And they're amazingly

206
00:11:16,430 --> 00:11:18,150
trustworthy.
Conversion tracking.

207
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:22,390
I also say I really like
Google's local service ads

208
00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:25,030
because of how clear cut the
conversion tracking is.

209
00:11:25,390 --> 00:11:28,990
Facebook conversion tracking is
torture, but we do what we must.

210
00:11:28,990 --> 00:11:32,630
So yeah, Julie goes, I feel like
Facebook has historically been

211
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:35,710
the platform most likely to
claim credit, where credit is

212
00:11:35,710 --> 00:11:38,110
not due for conversions or
sales.

213
00:11:38,590 --> 00:11:41,110
And Nava goes yes.
I also find that the share

214
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:44,990
volume of conversions needed for
its algorithm to function is a

215
00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:49,150
really tough ask for Smb's.
I'm interested to see if part of

216
00:11:49,230 --> 00:11:52,990
treads is an attempt on
Twitter's ads market, since

217
00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:55,910
those are objectively the worst.
Julie goes.

218
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:58,470
If ever there were there were a
platform that should be easy to

219
00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:03,270
poach from based on interacting
with the ads interface, Twitter

220
00:12:03,270 --> 00:12:05,350
is right up there at the top of
the list.

221
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,160
And we have AMID Caber responded
to question three saying, if I'm

222
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,160
being honest, I've only really
used GTM and analytics, so I

223
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,360
can't answer the question.
I've always found it easy to

224
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,320
implement and use, so I've never
had to think about another

225
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,360
platform.
So we go, same here.

226
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,280
And yeah, amid goes, I just love
GTM so much, I don't think I

227
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,720
would ever look anywhere else.
So yeah, Tiffany Shares also

228
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,360
talked about GTM and how to make
the most.

229
00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:35,540
Out of it, how to use it, how to
set it up, especially before GA4

230
00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:39,140
with GA4 migration.
So that was earlier in the month

231
00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:41,900
that this was our PPC Live UK
and yeah, it was a hit.

232
00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:43,940
It's one of our videos that is
the most watched.

233
00:12:44,140 --> 00:12:46,900
So if we go on YouTube, you can
check out those past talks.

234
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,380
Yeah, including Tiffany shares
this talk about GTM.

235
00:12:50,990 --> 00:12:53,350
And then we have Ashton Clark
responded to question two saying

236
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:57,750
I like others mentioned G A4 has
some discrepancies compared to

237
00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:02,190
what shows in each ad platform.
We've seen this impact social in

238
00:13:02,190 --> 00:13:04,590
particular like LinkedIn, he
continues.

239
00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:08,550
Some of this due to clients
setting up G A4 incorrectly or

240
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:11,670
still troubleshooting.
So I provide the numbers we can

241
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:14,710
and then ask what they see on
their end.

242
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,340
To try to figure out what's most
accurate.

243
00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:21,220
Also trying to get Crm's
integrated with platforms where

244
00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:24,180
we can.
And then Julie takes us on to

245
00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:27,620
question 4, saying when what are
the biggest roadblocks you

246
00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:30,380
encounter when it comes to
properly tracking PPC

247
00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:34,340
conversions in 2023?
How do you handle these

248
00:13:34,340 --> 00:13:36,620
situations?
And my answer to that was

249
00:13:36,620 --> 00:13:39,860
clearly that, yeah, I handled
them by not getting involved

250
00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:42,300
with them and just realizing
that I am not a.

251
00:13:42,770 --> 00:13:45,490
Tracking expert I'm not the one
that knows what people are

252
00:13:45,490 --> 00:13:48,970
talking about and it's usually
about tags on the website.

253
00:13:49,210 --> 00:13:53,010
So yeah, I solved that by
getting other people and people

254
00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:57,100
who are experts in that area to.
Deal with our clients and

255
00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:00,580
interact with our clients and
helping them solve those issues

256
00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:03,500
before we get to some more
answers about question four, we

257
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:06,940
get some answers from question 3
from Ashton Clarke saying I like

258
00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:10,180
to default to Google Analytics
data mostly because that's what

259
00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:12,820
clients tend to refer to as
their main source of truth.

260
00:14:13,140 --> 00:14:16,180
Especially true if I know or
trust the people who did the GA

261
00:14:16,180 --> 00:14:19,300
implementation.
On the flip side, there always

262
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:21,820
seems to be a discrepancy with
Facebook.

263
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:25,010
And LinkedIn.
So if you Logan responsing a lot

264
00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:27,730
of clients have cross domain
conversion parts and use

265
00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:29,810
iframes.
Talk about adding another level

266
00:14:29,810 --> 00:14:32,890
of complexity.
I miss the good old days of

267
00:14:32,890 --> 00:14:36,090
simple thank you Pages right
Shaunaligo.

268
00:14:36,090 --> 00:14:38,770
Seriously, I don't understand
why thank you pages went away,

269
00:14:38,770 --> 00:14:41,450
gives you better or easier
tracking and in my opinion

270
00:14:41,690 --> 00:14:45,290
doesn't hurt UX at all.
Who decided to change this?

271
00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:48,450
Some numpting Ray Bassett
response and I often insist

272
00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:51,890
clients set up thank you pages.
So if he goes, it can make

273
00:14:51,890 --> 00:14:53,770
tracking so much easier
sometimes.

274
00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:58,130
And as a user, I like firm
confirmation that the form or

275
00:14:58,130 --> 00:15:00,930
sale has gone through properly,
Melissa goes.

276
00:15:00,970 --> 00:15:04,690
I would like to know this too,
so I can hunt them down in terms

277
00:15:04,690 --> 00:15:08,770
of, yeah, whose idea was it to
get rid of thank you pages.

278
00:15:08,770 --> 00:15:10,470
So yeah.
People are not happy with

279
00:15:10,510 --> 00:15:12,950
iframes here.
I'm sure Julie responds to

280
00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:15,510
question for seeing.
It often starts with issues on

281
00:15:15,510 --> 00:15:18,750
the client side of things,
either with getting codes in the

282
00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:21,230
proper places or working
correctly.

283
00:15:21,470 --> 00:15:24,470
But I think we are only at the
tip of the iceberg when it comes

284
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:28,990
to attribution getting blown up
from what we are used to seeing

285
00:15:29,150 --> 00:15:31,590
or getting.
Chris read the response to

286
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:32,710
question.
Three saying the lack.

287
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:35,830
Of external gold import.
For Google ads is annoying.

288
00:15:35,830 --> 00:15:38,670
Meta ads is 1.
That is always widely different

289
00:15:38,670 --> 00:15:40,270
to other.
Data sources.

290
00:15:40,270 --> 00:15:43,430
GA4 is a mess.
Google Ads was the best in my

291
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:46,070
opinion.
I'm not sure how Melissa McKee

292
00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:48,910
responds to question forcing.
Some clients are still having

293
00:15:48,910 --> 00:15:51,870
trouble getting pixels and onto
their sites.

294
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:55,470
It's most common than you would
think and especially with GA4

295
00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:58,430
rolling out.
In response to that, Julie goes

296
00:15:58,430 --> 00:16:00,390
right.
The assumption that advertisers

297
00:16:00,630 --> 00:16:03,790
is also same person who
implements things on the website

298
00:16:03,790 --> 00:16:07,470
expertly too is hilarious.
Many platforms barely even

299
00:16:07,470 --> 00:16:10,460
recognize their biz.
That the business have someone

300
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,100
other than that them managing
that for them Melissa goes for

301
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:17,860
sure and sadly kinds think the
PPC person is the expert in site

302
00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:22,340
tagging when often like me they
are not creates A vicious cycle.

303
00:16:22,340 --> 00:16:25,100
So yeah exactly what I said
thinking that telling people

304
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,140
that I am not the tracking
expert.

305
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:30,100
I can tell you in terms of tell
you and advice you in terms of

306
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:34,020
PPC strategy you know the fact
that tracking needs to be

307
00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:36,460
correct but how try to be set it
up.

308
00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:39,520
Go to someone else.
Which really respond saying this

309
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,760
creates potentially harmful
expectation for clients and

310
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,080
impostor syndrome for PPC
marketers who aren't proficient

311
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,680
in site tagging.
Melissa goes exactly.

312
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,600
I can handle very basic
questions but know nothing about

313
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,120
tag installation or GTM.
Get to know a bit more about tag

314
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,120
installation or GTM by going to
PPC Live UK and watching on

315
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,920
YouTube and watching Tiffany
shares talk on that.

316
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,160
Sean, early response question
forcing clients who put?

317
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,560
Every widget known to man on
their websites to try to get

318
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,280
conversions.
All iframes, of course.

319
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,599
Oh Lord.
I feel like I'm guilty of that

320
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,880
for the PBC live UK site.
But then I'm trying to get

321
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,319
Eventbrite tagging in there.
I don't know how to do that.

322
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,839
I'm going to talk to someone
about trying to make it more of

323
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,320
a, you know, sending people to
thank you, Paige.

324
00:17:30,850 --> 00:17:33,010
But we'll see, that's one later
date.

325
00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:34,890
Sean continues answering
question forcing.

326
00:17:34,890 --> 00:17:38,410
I do my best to set up all the
tracking to start with and show

327
00:17:38,410 --> 00:17:41,810
them that many of the widgets
aren't producing quality leads

328
00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:45,650
and start to slowly remove them.
Very rarely do clients just

329
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:48,490
trust that it's a problem from
the beginning.

330
00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:52,500
And I'm Julie responds to Sean
Ellie, saying that all run 54

331
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,140
tags and wonder why conversions
are awful.

332
00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:56,980
Yeah, more is always better,
right?

333
00:17:57,260 --> 00:18:00,180
That was a sarcastic comment
from Sean Ellie.

334
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,120
And similarly to Judy's answer
about there being 54 tags, I'm

335
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,080
wondering why the conversions
are awful.

336
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,200
Melissa as well also in answer
to question 4 says I have also

337
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,240
seen clients accounts that have
20 plus primary conversion

338
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,240
actions.
This is really needed and

339
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,640
usually muddles the whole issue.
Lord 20.

340
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:24,390
And then in response to question
4, Nava Hopkins goes custom

341
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:28,390
setups where developed where
developers refuse to collaborate

342
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:31,470
and we get stuck making the same
asks forever.

343
00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:34,790
Everything else is conquerable
through testing and client

344
00:18:34,790 --> 00:18:37,470
communication.
I'll also give a shout out to

345
00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:41,510
custom support for most landing
page tools and we'd also have

346
00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:44,590
Ashton Clark responded to
question 4 saying the G A4

347
00:18:44,590 --> 00:18:47,710
switch and making sure that data
is accurate has been a struggle

348
00:18:47,710 --> 00:18:52,030
for some clients Cookie consent.
Banners and privacy updates have

349
00:18:52,030 --> 00:18:55,910
also impacted if conversions are
attributed properly or if they

350
00:18:55,910 --> 00:18:59,390
fire at all.
Ashton goes also not having

351
00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:02,590
access to a client, CRM,
analytics or other platforms

352
00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:05,390
makes it hard to get the full
picture on my own.

353
00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:09,070
I try to come back to this by
talking about lead quality of

354
00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:12,470
volume on every call.
What do you see on your end?

355
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:15,190
Do those numbers align
internally?

356
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:18,630
Yeah, that is definitely very
important to know.

357
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:21,270
And yeah, Melissa goes there.
You can say that again even

358
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:24,270
though we had a long lead time,
many advertisers are still

359
00:19:24,270 --> 00:19:28,150
working through GA4 issues.
So yeah, GA four issues

360
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:33,150
impacting data accuracy and we
have NAV Hopkins responding to

361
00:19:33,470 --> 00:19:38,050
question of five.
Actually we go to question five.

362
00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:42,290
First of all, with Apple
potentially stripping out UTM

363
00:19:42,610 --> 00:19:46,930
parameters as early as Q
4/20/23, including Google and

364
00:19:46,930 --> 00:19:50,450
Facebook ads parameters, how do
you plan to capture conversions

365
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:52,530
that should be attributed to
ads?

366
00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:56,050
For me it was screaming into my
screaming towel and duly

367
00:19:56,050 --> 00:20:00,130
recommended that we should make
some branded swag from that.

368
00:20:00,130 --> 00:20:02,610
So yeah, screaming into a
Screaming towel and I thought

369
00:20:02,610 --> 00:20:06,050
PBC Live UK Screaming towels.
That will be fun.

370
00:20:06,850 --> 00:20:10,090
So yeah, in answer to that,
Jagadesh responds saying this is

371
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:13,570
only removed when the user is
browsing in privacy mode in

372
00:20:13,570 --> 00:20:16,290
Safari.
That's a tiny percentage, Julie

373
00:20:16,290 --> 00:20:18,530
goes.
It is in emails and messages too

374
00:20:18,530 --> 00:20:22,050
and could be expanded at anytime
to AI, to all browsing.

375
00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:25,450
It is worth thinking about how
you would work without the data

376
00:20:25,450 --> 00:20:27,850
we have today.
Management goes, my

377
00:20:27,850 --> 00:20:31,130
understanding is that they will
only strip shared URLs.

378
00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:34,710
Not from ad campaigns.
If you click on an ad message

379
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:38,270
and then send a link to someone
in iMessage, I don't think this

380
00:20:38,270 --> 00:20:41,510
was communicated effectively.
These guys just don't care about

381
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:44,310
communicating things
effectively, do they?

382
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:47,590
Nava Hopkins goes G Braid and W
Braid.

383
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:49,630
Never heard of G Braid or W
Braid.

384
00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:53,910
These already got introduced and
just require configuring your

385
00:20:53,910 --> 00:20:55,430
GTM.
So yeah.

386
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:01,440
Configure your GTM 4G Braid and
W Braid interesting terms there.

387
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,480
Julie responds to question 5,
saying not that attribution has

388
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,520
ever been super great, but it
well has been.

389
00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:11,380
Perceived as quite accurate up
until now and this is our issue

390
00:21:11,380 --> 00:21:14,940
to unwind as tracking will
continue to get more difficult

391
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:18,100
or less reliable.
Consent mode is not something us

392
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,420
searchers understand, she
continues.

393
00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:24,820
Time will tell as far as how
much data loss we will face.

394
00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:28,420
Facebook had a huge ruling
against them and sharing data

395
00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:32,050
amongst their proper.
Our parties this week in the EU

396
00:21:32,050 --> 00:21:34,130
and how they use data to target
ads.

397
00:21:34,370 --> 00:21:38,810
We need to prepare for way less
attribution availability now.

398
00:21:39,450 --> 00:21:42,970
And yeah, we get to my screaming
into my screaming towel answer.

399
00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:45,410
We also have Sean Ellie
responding, saying honestly with

400
00:21:45,530 --> 00:21:48,650
all the J4 tracking I haven't
had a chance to look at this yet

401
00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:51,770
so we'll be curious to see
everyone's answer.

402
00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:54,530
Ashton Clark as well says to be
honest, I don't really have a

403
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:57,050
solution in mind yet.
So interested in other answers?

404
00:21:57,050 --> 00:21:59,050
Yeah, interested in anyone's
answer.

405
00:21:59,540 --> 00:22:02,420
Maybe test landing pages that
are only used for paid channels,

406
00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:05,820
so if someone converts on the
page we know it only could have

407
00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:08,540
come from us.
Not easily scalable though,

408
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:12,680
especially for SMBs.
That note seems like that was a

409
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,080
short and sweet chat today, but
very interesting in terms of

410
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,280
what's coming, how people are
finding conversion tracking and

411
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,840
how they deal with it.
Don't have too many tags on the

412
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,080
side.
Don't have too many primary tags

413
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,120
that you're your conversion
types that you're focusing on.

414
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,280
Try to move away from iframes.
I'm looking at the mirror.

415
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:36,270
On that one, and yeah, work with
web development team and keep

416
00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:38,270
learning.
Keep figuring out how to do

417
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:40,750
things.
Learn GTM, learn GTM as well.

418
00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:43,110
That'll be my biggest tips for
you today.

419
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:45,750
So apart from that, I hope
you've taken some very useful

420
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:47,550
takeaways.
And if you want to chat more

421
00:22:47,550 --> 00:22:52,750
about this topic, join Julie and
the team and our community on

422
00:22:52,750 --> 00:22:57,390
Thursday at 12:00 PM Eastern
Time, 5:00 PM GMT or BST, even

423
00:22:57,670 --> 00:23:00,280
around British Summer Time.
Where we're going to be having

424
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,760
this chat, so it's going to be
on the PVC chat, Discord.

425
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,560
I'll need to be looking into
that.

426
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,120
There's a link on that that I
will share.

427
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,880
So yeah, I hope you find that
useful and join us for that.

428
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,800
If you have anymore answers or
questions from this chat, for

429
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,680
any feedback about the podcasts,
or even some correction and

430
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,320
anything that has been shared to
get in touch with me on my

431
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,760
Twitter and threads.
My Dms are open on the handle at

432
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,730
the marketing Annu.
It would also be great to all

433
00:23:26,730 --> 00:23:30,010
you longstanding and brand new
listeners to give the podcast a

434
00:23:30,010 --> 00:23:31,930
review.
It will help with the good

435
00:23:31,930 --> 00:23:35,170
strategy of the podcast and you
can do that on Spotify by

436
00:23:35,170 --> 00:23:39,090
leaving a rating or leaving a
review on Apple or Pod Chaser.

437
00:23:39,090 --> 00:23:43,570
To do that, just go to
linktree.com/ppc chat, under

438
00:23:43,570 --> 00:23:47,090
score roundup.
And yeah, that's also nice

439
00:23:47,090 --> 00:23:50,610
little reminder, our one year
anniversary event is happening

440
00:23:50,610 --> 00:23:53,290
in just over 2 weeks, so that'll
be on the 27th.

441
00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:57,100
Of July I need to order the
cake, which I'll do tomorrow.

442
00:23:57,380 --> 00:24:01,180
I finalized the location, which
I'm happy about and yeah, it's

443
00:24:01,180 --> 00:24:03,420
going to be another wonderful
event for amazing speakers.

444
00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:05,300
We're going to be talking about
micro conversions.

445
00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:09,380
A I of course it's going to talk
about ways to ensure that you

446
00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:13,340
are looking beyond just rowing
and some more amazing panel

447
00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:15,820
chats are going to happen where
the audience really gets

448
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,100
involved.
So yeah, I hope you can join us

449
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:22,940
for that on the 27th of July.
Just go to ppclive@uk.com.

450
00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:26,300
For tickets, Finally remember
for your campaigns and

451
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,020
businesses to glide smoothly.
There's a lot of hard work

452
00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,780
needed beneath the surface, so
keep your Swans kicking by and

453
00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:33,740
speak to you next week.