EP244 - GA4 - Figure It Out or Find An Alternative

0:00 Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the PPC chat Roundup in today's episode. We have the awesome Julie bikini taken us on the Helm of a fantastic topic right now and we couldn't be talking enough about it. It's Google analytics for so ga for figuring it out or find an alternative. So yeah, I saw it on a search engine land, being on search engine lands, home page, there is a countdown they've got going on if there's a hundred and twenty one days left, Right now is 121 days. 21 hours, 55 minutes, and 57 seconds to yeah. Google analytics. You a is properly sunsetted and you only have G A for to you.

0:43 So yeah, we've got that amount of time to talk about it. Figure it out and learn bigquery and just realize how to properly use it. I remember that there was a time where saying that you need to have made sure that at least you started Migrating to the ga for way of doing things like a year before so that you can have like, a Year's worth of data and being able to do year-on-year analysis when the you a sunsetted. But from the sounds of how complicated, the communities finding it and the frustrations people are talking about. Yeah, it sounds like that that one-year Mark has gone by with a lot of people still being frustrated and not quite grasping properly ga4 yet.

1:28 So yeah, we talked about that we talked about Out the frustrations we are having what we're using were Alternatives. We are possibly thinking of and yeah hoping that we get through this next 121 days together and sane. All right, let's go. Hello and a warm, welcome to this episode of the PPC chat Roundup a podcast way. I round up the Twitter discussion that happens on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. GMT. I'm your host, a new and I'm recording from my studio Hair in London UK. And I use this platform to share, not just expert but also my ideas and considered best practices about paid medium, the direction, the digital industry is going in. So if you want to keep up to date with my tips and tricks in the industry, and get the latest on the podcast that has been called your go-to.

2:21 If you do, make it to the PPC chat live discussions. And even if you do then, like, follow Sharon retweets on, that's right. Twitter with my handle, the marketing, a new or join us on our LinkedIn Group, which is the PPC chat Roundup. Or if you're on Instagram, why don't you check us out at PPC, chatter Round Up to PPC, chat underscore Roundup, even PVC chat underscore, Round Up to get quotes, and Snippets from our previous episodes. So, yeah, we have Julie taken us on a great topic about Google analytics for For or ga4 as I'll be referring it to from now on. And yeah, figuring it out or find an alternative. But first, how we doing? Diana joins us as well as Guild.

3:02 Now we've got govind Singh. Who is that? A new name in the group? Julie, advice shoes. As a picture of a snowy morning. Wow, everywhere is covered in snow and she's all the way in Canada over there. And yeah, I'm sure got many more. Why not web as well, joins as well as actor and Weaver Minkoff and shown early many. Excited to talk about their frustrations frustrations with ga4, before we get to the questions. This chat is intended for PPC, Professionals of all levels. Julie says, if you have something you want to share, please do we are friendly and supportive Community. Please don't be afraid to participate. Lurkers are of course, always welcome lurkers as well as podcast, listeners as always.

3:45 So yeah, let's get straight into the questions. I know we all have thoughts on ga4. So let's do it. Question one. One is Google analytics for GA for running on the sites that you are working with if not why not and was it difficult to get it deployed and collecting data. So and if not why not and if so was it difficult to get it deployed and collecting data Rush goes setting ga4 is not an issue but the data discrepancy between platforms and the lack of support is causing many headaches. Custom CMS plus C DP and trying to get GA for working. To nightmare looks like we need to update our acronyms page there. Dan Alina response saying, we have a deployed since February last year, another agency helped us with it but I admit I still use you a more often Gil gonna respond saying, deployed on all clients sites and I internal sites implementation isn't difficult but we have seen issues with incorrect data, links with Google ads, not all conversions.

4:45 Are accurately. Imported lots of lost data compared to you a Ivan. A sponsoring interesting. How about compared to Google ads? Pixels govind response to a question. Wanting ga4 is running on the side since day. One of its release. Never find installation hard with Google tag manager. Good tip. There some responses in setup, wasn't too bad with tags manager, but I haven't invested time getting used to it and find myself constantly going to you a for data instead. Yeah, so, people still relying on you a even when j4 has been installed, Reva man, coverage, I'm saying GTA 4 is on some sites and not others, but I'm not sure that it's running with 100% confidence on any of them yet.

5:29 Chanel irresponsible. Yes, it's running and collecting data on all client sites. It was not difficult to get it running and most sites which are easy to set up conversions. There were a couple tricky sites to set up events for the tough. Part is turning the data into a usable report. Yeah, reporting still quite a headache. We then have Julie herself. Senior j4 is running on all the sides. I'm involved with both clients and the ones I managed. It was not easy to get it configured even as someone who has been doing, analytics for 20 plus years and who knows a decent bit about coding and Google tag manager. And then, Reverb mentions a psycho mantis in, I'm struggling to understand why, or how it is acceptable. That there would be a difference between ga4 and whatever the actual back-end source of Truth is for the client. And yeah, actor goes very good point p. As well, we are yet.

6:23 Not sure about the correct data from GA for something I have noticed for most of our clients and then we have that ill-advised as well saying only on a couple it wasn't difficult to apply per se but the actual setup took some time. Yeah Julie goes getting the code on pages was not any more difficult than you. A it gets hairy when you want to want it to see conversions and actually pass back data to itself, Julie advice for getting cozy. Yeah, quietly kind of glad that many of my clients can't use GA at all. It's been annoying until right now. Yeah. Why not work with lucky and do the rice goes in this one tiny? Incredibly specific way? Yes.

7:05 Yeah. Tiny specific way. Why not web response to question one saying, all our current clients have had at least a minimal ga4 setup. Since last June, several are still waiting to be fully integrated and then we have Sophie responding to question. One saying the switch has been very The cold as for the majority of our clients we have had to rely on their web dev team to make the changes and she continues. Not only have we been having to inform our direct contacts as to why it is important and What needs doing. But we've had to help the web or death teams, a lot to make the changes. So if your response continues, they're finally seeing we found this to be very hard to do. Not only are we still learning about it ourselves, but when you're not an expert in something, it's hard to guy.

7:51 Guide troubleshoot and instruct someone else on what to do without having any access yourself and actors as well response to question. One thing. Absolutely thanks to the bomb dropped. Last year of you, a sunset eventually have migrated to ga4 and for new account, starting from birth, you a and g. A very, very much difficult for migration. Especially for those who had multiple locations different stores lead gen. Julie, ran swiftly takes us on to question 2 saying, You working in GA for for your analytics needs and Reporting. If so how is it going? If not, why not Diana goes? I used GA for the most for creating lots of new audiences. I know the limit is of 100 so this cuts through my enthusiasm. I also created some reports but more for learning purposes not for delivery to anyone else Gilda respond saying yes because we have to I'd say in general, it's okay but not perfect. We have worked around a lot of problems by building. Very extensive dashboards inside looker data Studio but it's still not entirely perfect ga4gh for still miss attributes. A lot actor, respond saying how much error rate as the general Trend.

9:04 Think have you noticed Gil, Gil response bigger in EU than in. U.s. we are seeing upwards of 40% of conversions, misattributed to direct in EU markets hard to say. In other markets, seems to vary by account and I took as you have been working with Sweden, Norway the Netherlands. I More from EU data is a disaster. Then I wonder what it would look like if you then go to like African countries because yeah, I kind of imagine the data will be great there either we have killed responding to a question to say no given up. And and now use matomoto can't get page performance for specific conversion. Type when importing into Data Studio, why not web response in the bigger issues, clients allocating the extra costs of time for setting up properly. Some would lower budgets, just can't allocate the resources, people or money to finish setup.

9:56 When they have other things, they want those resources working on convincing response to a question to saying. Yes, trying. But it's so much hard to get a report you need last week, I wasted one to two hours to get a simple report visitor, reported by hour of day. And day of week, still didn't find the answer while it's just 45 clicks work in Universal analytics. Yeah, if it's just getting harder. You know, Google supposed to come up with a solution, not you tools to make things harder for us. Anyway, device responds to question 2 saying, it's incorporated into our local reports where applicable but it's not the end-all or be. Also, look at is now be the new name for data studio. So watch out for that, Julia herself, respond saying I am trying but it's so frustrating and unsatisfactory. Then we have shown Ellie responding to question 2 saying that I could really.

10:51 Try to buy. Take just take so much more time because of the suckiness to pull data that you can easy find easily in you. A I do have time scheduled in March, to work to build our templates, which should help. Yeah, that's Today Show. And I hope you started working on that. Well, it's been much for an hour 17 minutes. So, I am definitely, I love it. It's much already. I hope you started working on that. Yeah, at 1:17 a.m. on March, in March. Ignore that everybody except Wants to watch John had said, and if she goes, please do share that once you get some templates up, that will be super helpful. It would be great. If we can create something like a template for PPC, chat website, what's, what's a you Neptune Moon? So that's Julie.

11:35 She's referring to their Tim Heller and response to question one saying, yes, we have it set up for all our clients but since we're managing both you a and for right now it's a lot of duplicating learnings happening across teams and yes and in answer to question 2. To Tim goes. Yes. Both for some though, we only do ga4, it's difficult to be honest. I'm having a tough time with it still. So if you log in response to question 2 scene, yes, I forced myself a few months ago to only use Geo for when reporting or looking into things, still, not as confident in there. As I am with you either, I know clients are finding using GA for very difficult, Julie's continues, a response to surfacing the learning curve from where Mortals non-experts and Looks like Mount Everest, Champs Elysee also responds to serve, he saying at some point, I'm going to have to do this to myself and I'm not looking forward to it, and so he goes, it was a very long reports day my day.

12:34 We just spent the whole day trying to do reports in Google analytics, your eyes will go cross-eyed. I'm sure why not web response to question 2. Saying only says the simplest of clients are using it for reporting and data right now. Those with more complex needs are still evaluating the cost resources on money. Of getting fully integrated or using other analytics Riverman cough response to question to say, no it's less user-friendly hard to get the info. We need out and the data isn't very reliable so far. It's a response saying, again, main issue is the complexity of distilling, the reports. And also some skewed data stakeholders, get hard time, working with go4 due to misattribution, especially mid small owners, and then they start getting concerned on things. Going with conversions, things that are going with convergence and we have Ashton Clark, joining the conversation and even though he's laid, I do love his answer. So I'm still going to go back to his answer to question. One, where he goes, yes, G-Force been running from most of our clients since July twenty twenty-two, because we wanted to have year-on-year data when the switch from you a happens. Absolutely.

13:42 What I was saying earlier on, Google analytics set up, maintenance isn't included in our paid media Scopes so we mostly helped by providing context and And documentation and it continues GA for creating a ga for property. IE deployment, wasn't particularly difficult. But data collection setting up conversions, discrepancies between platforms, including between different views or reports within GA and recreating Legacy. You a reports has been more of a struggle, we then going on to question. 3, Julie asks, have you found the third party tool? Also That helps you use GA for more effectively.

14:24 Not a lot of answers for this Diner. Linear response. Not yes, curious what others are answering. Maybe I find something good to look into Guild and respond saying I'm testing pyrrhic so pi wik as a possible alternative but it would be very difficult to convince our larger clients to migrate data away from what they've been using for 20 plus years. Other than that data studio all the way only Band-Aid with found that, Makes it better. Govind respond saying not trust. Use GA for effectively by in order to get simple reports. I use statcounter stat counter. It has been recommended there and the ideal egos I have a GF will resources page on the PPC chat website will absolutely linked or include any resources, you all come up with. So yeah, go to official PPC, chat.com, forward slash, Google hyphen analytics, Hyphen for hyphen G, A for hyphen resources, so yeah.

15:21 Go to analytics. Official PPC, chat.com, forward, slash, Google analytics for GA for resources, put in a hyphen between all those words there, Ashton clock response to question 2 saying, yes, it's been hit-or-miss. It's been difficult to recreate. You a reports like Behavior flow. It's also been fine for simpler. Reporting like adding conversions. Tables to our looker Studio Google data Studio reports, but the recent quarter limit is a Major Payne now and we have Julie herself responding to question three saying, I have not found a third party tool that can make GA For Better Or easier to work in but I really really want one.

16:03 Yeah it's a goes me too. We have John Keegan response and I found that analytics Mania by feather row vicious so that's Fe d 0 R 0 V IC i-- us and that's handle to have the best information out right? But To love greater usage. Open to any and all suggestions please. Why not web responsive since look at isn't considered third-party no, we haven't yet. Found any other third party tool that makes it easier to install the framework and definitions have to exist within GA for itself. First actor, response. Question, 3. Seen in quest of something that is easy accurate and working like a charm charm. Meanwhile assertive of some options Plus first-party data, a data scientist reports.

16:50 Then she ask have you guys worked with automations or something else to pull back and data and manual upload to Google ads. Yeah, that would be an interesting use case for that. And we have Ashton Clark responding to question 3 c, not really. We use Lucas studio for reporting, which helps a little, but quota limits, and seemingly random restrictions on which filters, or Dimensions or excetera can be applied to a table or graph has made this approach. Less helpful in recent months, and Julie takes us on to Forcing, are you looking for at alternative analytics tools? If so, which ones have you checked out thoughts and actor goes? I might tweak this to what their party tool can replace go4 without breaking the bank.

17:35 Angela goes fair question. The market is a ripe right now for an affordable alternative to Google analytics, not an Enterprise level solution, but want that lots of businesses will pay a monthly fee to use. I would sell this idea of a $50 per month. 'The final latex Gil respond saying. I am looking at any tool that doesn't have data Vis like this mess and he's yeah shows an image of a Google data Studio since I think. I'm not sure Ivan response to question for say not really GA for lacks in reporting capabilities for now. They will fix it sooner or later but ga4 is better in some ways event-based bottom line. I don't think it's worth the time and effort for most Google ads managers to look elsewhere.

18:19 Well it depends. On, if a solution good solution, alternative solution comes about, Chanel response, question, forcing, I haven't yet. I have wished or expected Microsoft, or someone to just recreate, you a or similar product. Imagine the instant adoption you would get absolutely right. Julia, Vice go sign me up. Go go and response. I would love being analytics. Microsoft Clarity is awesome. I don't know why, be a wouldn't be too, and Microsoft Clarity gives a big eye to this. This and they are Go-Go's, hey clippings, Microsoft Clarity coming, and so that's yet. Clipping KP gift that has been shown by Microsoft Clarity.

19:03 Who am I? Cursed of clarity, free easy-to-use tool, captures. New real people use your side captures. How real people use your site session recordings using integration heat Maps. Yeah, I think it's a little, is it, are they a Microsoft company? They've got to bank to be using Microsoft. As a bright. Anyway, I digress delivers response to question for saying yes. Brand lift studies numerous reports third-party research. There are Rumblings about Adobe but their products are pricey and very complicated to use as well from all the clients who have come to me about Adobe Ashton clock response to question, forcing. We haven't really looked for Alternatives at this point, but I would definitely be interested to see what's out there and always open to try something new Julia.

19:50 Why Stan come Sorry, Jeannie Jeannie continues with our response to Ashton because I'm thinking of trying some on the PPC chat site. So I can report back by want to do any that are super expensive yet. Don't spend all the money in the bank for that Genie actor response to question forcing not yet yet looking for one for now, assertive assumptions, Plus first-party data Plus data scientist back and reports Tim hollering response to question forcing. I've had clients use a few different ones in the past which is where I've got. The most exposure outside of GA. Most of them are suited for specific Industries, e-comm SAS, Healthcare Etc. But I'm open to getting some records.

20:30 Definitely want to learn more. John Keegan response to question. Forcing yes. Adobe is borderline compliant for hip-hop. So HIPAA but expensive there is another one called periodic which someone mentioned earlier so Pi wik that is gaining steam but nothing quite as intuitive as ga-eun. You a and delivers go so expensive and then Jam cake. And yeah, well with the Canadian conversion rate system. I think you have to pay three moose and a loony every other month for its ha ha that's hilarious. I'm shocked. I'm imagine all the audience will get that reference so if you look in response to question 3 saying I can't say that I've come across anything to help but would be interested to hear of any which people have found beneficial. And then yeah, Julie takes us on to question five now that we've Sufficiently annoyed that we are all sufficiently annoyed talking about GA for she asked what is on your ga4 wish list where it is?

21:29 The only Google analytics running date for this is currently July. 22, 23 Gil, Golden Rose. Please give me more than three grass, visualization options. When making a custom report, a pile of toothpicks is not going to cut it. Also some more Integrations with popular e-commerce platforms, would be useful as well, Dino linear. Goes as I've stated in previous tweet, it would be lovely, being possible to segment data by Source or medium having more reliable accurate data. These I think are the most important, many things can be improved, and it would be awesome to access things with lesser clicks kill response. Question 5 seeing proper landing page reporting, out-of-the-box. Exclude excluding query strings, and give the advertising tab, something, it's particularly empty for me. And we have Sophie Logan responded to Enforcing our clients are happy with what they get through j4 and CRM. So painful service is service is not something they'd be very willing to do, which is understandable as they have what they need for their day-to-day work. But it's not always there for the marketing side. We have, why not Webb responded to question for saying we have gone as far as documenting the pricing of the other options for our clients.

22:44 Most of them are angry over the costs but still considering do to man hours for MJ for that may be inferior in the end and generally response to question five saying usability in all caps, more better, default reports. This should be fairly easy. As I don't think they can get more much worse. Did a human that uses the internet design? Ga4, because I have my doubt, I wonder whether it actually meets accessibility laws. I remember my friend earlier this evening Rejoice, or Jack, who was saying about how Beyonce's website because it was not accessible All to disabled people people who are need to use alt text to, you know, read through a page.

23:27 Yeah, she got sued by that the accessibility of a company that makes sure that sites are accessible. So yeah, IGA for messing around with that. Huh? Interesting. Maybe that's one of the lawsuits. Again, that's what one of the losses lawsuits against them is about. And then we have a delivers responded question facing besides just simplifying. I want audiences to be easier to pass. Pass pass back and understand Google audience insights first-party audience insights New Opportunities based on conversion data and then we have John Keegan responding to question. Five, same redesigned dashboard especially navigation to be more intuitive like GA you a a clearly defined, a clearly defined list of what is not being carried over from UA and what is new?

24:15 A better you a import system net, net, net. Just be ga A yeah, and jelly. Jelly responsive want to know a secret. Think they think j4 is easier to navigate than you a? Yeah, and don't John King cozy. I sorry, I just stopped by coffee. Yeah, no definitely. Not easy, Julie. Dan gives her wish list saying, where to start in response to question five. Yeah, make the UI easier for non deaths to use. Take a look at the reports in Universal analytics and recreate them dashboards. I'd even settle for a report wizard at this point to let me Me tell it what I want and it would build it. Imagine that. That would be great.

24:56 Sean McGinnis, I want to get it making it McGinnis even I'm close here. Our response are go back to allowing Channel level customizations Channel, level customizations, Tim Holloman respond saying I'll Echo the usability comment in response to question five. It feels like it was made by someone who has never used you a before reminds me of a mobile app that decided to add a desktop functionality As an afterthought to be honest. So usability 100% Ashton clock response to question. Five saying, bring back the you a behavior flow reports. I know that they are ways to recreate it in GTA 4 but I haven't had success with that yet and it's not as intuitive as you a, to me at least Julie then goes your last question of the day. Have you found any resources that have helped you in your quest to actually use ga4?

25:49 Yeah, before we get into that, why? Why not? Grab goes in response to question five saying? Yeah, I'm thinking they need a lot more wizard for the non-technical folks, which is minimum 50% of the end users of GA for everyone. One of me, we have three to four other users. There are Thomas, just gives a comment about GA. Forcing my biggest thoughts on G4 is that it was never meant as a replacement, but an evolution of you a /, urchin, the entire concept is that you track KP is not data. He continues like which like wolf that's talked, all ask and unfair cetera but it's far more intriguing than I had this report. Where is it?

26:29 And he continued to. I just find it so funny when you, a was announced and UTM wasn't passed in the Claire. There was a ton of Chicken Little thing about it. Also, same story with every update ever Riverbanks of goes, but the kpi still need to be accurate. Know that goes. Yeah, for sure. I'm not seeing huge differences in event tracking, but maybe that's my limit. Experience like I'm not working or thousand came monthly sites. I'm working largely with small businesses so maybe great for small businesses but yeah, not so great for the bigger ones and we have Ashton clock responding to question. Five saying, bring back the you a behavior flow report. I know there are ways to recreate it in GA for by. I haven't had success with that yet and it's not as intuitive as you a, to me, at least.

27:17 And then, yeah, we've got Julie, green last question of the day. Have you? Found any resources that have helped you in your quest to actually use ga4, you're gonna respond saying lots of helpful resources, lots of helpful resources, but only gets you to the limits of ga4 at some point. It's not the resources that are the problem. It's the tool itself beating a dead horse at this point, but I don't think I'm exaggerating. When I say G 4G a for is just a bad solution and why not website in this vein, I don't find it to be a solution at all. It does not solve any kind of pain points. It is only adding to them. So we are just at deciding if it's a necessary evil or not.

27:58 Anjali goes. Yeah, we need a non-enterprise priced alternative to put forth. No, I would do it in a heartbeat, so yes, Bing anyone else. Come on, give us an alternative Diana Lena response saying they were YouTube channels of loves data and analytics Mania, so loves data and analytics Mania and even workshops from Google. I also follow Charles Farina. So, Charles Farina on Twitter for this scope. So, as mentioned earlier on the actually go, see, I have a page on the PPC, chat site, where I'm collecting GA for resources. I'll add any, you all share today. To the page, in addition, to the recap. Post-show Nelly response saying that. Yeah, I have read some eBooks and did Bri, eat at Bri underscore t on the school Anderson's course those are were helpful, but definitely just Need to start getting my hands dirty.

28:52 There's nothing like just getting the work done. Julie goes. I did Breeze cause as well she's on the resources page. So yeah, later people mentioning the resources and so if you look in response to question five saying agreeing with a lot of comments here, improved usability. Everything just feels off unfinished and misplaced at the moment. I know we will learn and adapt but you would have make more sense for them to improve based on all this feedback, they must be getting here. Body listening to the feedback, that's the question, right? We have Christian responding to question five saying, I wish to return to you a and give us the option to use both. Well, you can do that right now.

29:33 So maybe for the future, Ashton clock response saying in our teens, first effort to understand and Implement you a for we all attended a webinar and used resources from Krista sidon. So that's Krista SE idn and that's how handle was helpful and would and so yeah, great resources mentioned there, so Bree e and distance of Bree underscore t on this call Anderson and Krista side in there to people that you definitely be following about anything ga4. So yeah, we come to the end of that chat. And it's definitely been an interesting one about our frustrations with GA for what we wish for and resources that we can use to help but someone like Guild mentioned, what really struck out to me is the fact that no matter what the resources Is sometimes you just come to the limitations. It's the limitations of the tools. That is the biggest problem.

30:27 Not the fact that you do not know necessarily what you are doing. So, yeah, I hope you found that useful. I hope again. This was one of those chats that makes you feel like. Yes, I'm not alone with my frustrations with ga4, I needed to be better. Am I the only one? No, you are not the only one, if you want to continue chatting about your frustrations with GA for, please join us on, Thursday, on Twitter spaces. I'm sure Julie will be leading a chat and very Entertaining. I'm sure and vibrant chat about ga4 and our frustrations about it. I hope you found this tutorial useful, and yeah, if you want to take any, if you want to make any corrections about it, anything that you want to say about anything that I've said, please get in touch with me on my Twitter.

31:08 My DM's are open on my handle, at the marketing, a new or joining on LinkedIn. Check me out on LinkedIn. We have a PPC, chat Roundup group up on there. And we'd love for you to join and share your thoughts. It would also Be great to all long-standing and brand new listeners to give the podcast a review. It really helps with the growth strategy of the podcast. You can do that on Spotify. Yeah. By leaving a rating or leaving a review on Apple as well, purchased it and more projects and more if you just go to the link tree.com. So, link2sd re e.com, /p P c-- chat on the score round up, you will be taken to their also, reminder. We've got people PC live, UK the second event of our year of the Year happening in March next month on the 30th. We've got early bird tickets prices right now. It's going to increase next week. I'm going to give to the end of this week because I'm going on holiday to holiday tomorrow.

32:07 So I'm not going to settle that up just yet. But yeah they're going to be early bird. Tickets is going to the deadline for that is going to be this way. So buy your ticket before that price goes up next week. Finally remember for your campaigns and businesses to Glide smoothly. There's a lot of hard work needed beneath the surface so keep this one's kicking by and speak to you next week.