EP243 - Coping with Diminishing Data

0:00 Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the PPC chat Roundup in today's episode. We have Julie taken us on a very great topic, especially of the DA for countdown. We've got going on, we are going to be talking about coping with diminishing data and it's not just about ga4, it's also about, you know, Google ads New and Microsoft kind of implemented some things meaning that there's some data that we're not going to see any more. So yeah, we're going to be talking all about that. How experiencing it, how we're coping with it, how we're communicating with clients about it. So hope you enjoy.

0:46 Hello and a warm, welcome to this episode of the PBC chat, round up a podcast where I round up the Twitter discussion that happens on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. GMT. I'm your host to a new and I'm recording from my studio here in London UK. And I use this platform to share, not just expert but also my ideas and considered best practices about paid media in the direction, the digital industry is going in. So if you want to keep up to date with my tips and Rick's in the industry and get the latest on the podcast that has been called your go to if you don't make it to the PPC chat live discussions and even if you do then like, follow share and retweet or that's right. Twitter with my handle the marketing, a new or join us on our LinkedIn group, PPC, chat, Roundup podcast or if you're on Instagram, check us out at PPC, chat underscore Round Up to get quotes and Snippets from our previous episodes.

1:33 So we have Julie leading us on another great topic coping with diminishing data. And a bit of a roll call. We have slavery Logan who shared a very cute picture of her little pug, AKA PPC pug, very cute little dog. We also have a vector joining us as well as Christian and Fraser Andrews joining as well. And Lawrence Chase and Sean Ellie doing Brown. I believe also, joining clenched mildly as well, joined us today. So yeah, it was a definitely, a very full house. We definitely love talking about data and who what we do with the absence of it. And you know, hoping that some of our tweets will get Google and Microsoft, giving us some back. But yeah, before we get into the questions, Julie, as usual, say that this chat is intended for PPC, Professionals of all levels. So if you have something you want to share, please do we are a friendly and supportive Community. Please don't be afraid to participate. But lurkers and podcast listeners are of course, always welcome.

2:29 So yeah, getting on to the questions we have today, Julie goes, yeah, let's get to the questions. What are the main types of PPC regularly work with in PPC? And from what sources are, what are the main types of data? You regularly work with in PPC and from what sources management goes in platform data and CRM data? And yeah, that's pretty much was my answer. I just made it in the form of both platform data and client data. So in terms of Revenue data and the like is Sophia response to question one saying yeah I mainly use the Google ads platform data SQL as a lot GA data. And with P Max I look a lot in the data from microbes scripts micro Scripts like that be interesting to hear more about that.

3:11 Sean any response team back and revenue of lead data and GA for the most part, some data from the bank, Google, Facebook tags. But prefer to grab this old from GA. So, I am comparing the same thing, exactly. It's always great to have a 12 point of view, and that's what Marin software, every Marine one, we're trying to do, being able to pull in all your platform, dating one View, and to be able to see it in one space. So, if you look in response, question, one saying I've been spending a lot of time going. Through such time reports recently also making sure I'm getting as much customer lead data as possible from client actor. Response depends, all the decisions in performance is taken Based on data, so everything numbers and stats sources. Google analytics is huge, third party data, sources competitors, spine tools, platform analytics.

3:59 I dissect the funnel and measure conversion rates, at all the steps, that's a very detailed way of doing things their act. I'm sure you're getting good results from that. Kristen response, question once and I mostly look at Google ads data with such query reports. Main kpis also add Google analytics and Revenue data from both Shopify and triple whale and then we have Fraser Andrews responding saying hey gang predominantly in platform data but increasingly encountering much more first-party data and business data in my current role which is a whole new kettle of fish actor response. What sources do you look for first party data? I'm using HubSpot and charge be and similar tools. Or one of my projects. Anything else that you would suggest Fraser goes hot spot for sure.

4:42 Also seen some Salesforce work at the moment. But hop spot is great. I need to study the top spot and then swiftly, Julie takes us on to question. Two. She goes, do you find you have less PPC data to work with now than you had previously what types of data specifically are diminished or less valuable? Greg respond saying just posed a poor perform keyword with 53 clicks. I could see one on the side That report annoying KL response. Question one saying yes, getting very few Search terms to see actual data, which is needed for applying negatives. I've also seen Google ads today, hide enabled, keywords to speed up or reporting and yeah.

5:23 Meditation response to question 2 as well as saying Search terms, that's where we're losing data, search terms. We then have Ashton clock response to question. One saying the most common data sources will look at our conversions sales revenue, which varies between ga For Google ads, tag and CRM Imports as the source performance data from various platforms, like clicks Impressions, Etc, from Google ads and Search terms or placement reports show. Nellie response question to saying, yes, I know the hiding of data from the big platforms as made clients, more receptive to putting in the work to get us back and data. So Less in platform data, more data from clients really wish I could still see queries and placements to make sure dollars isn't wasted actors. Have you tested P?

6:09 Max for lead gen. If yet any insights from that on performance and optimizing Channel response. We tested a few and took over accounts where P Max was being used. The main thing that stood out was lead, quality was bad and the clients didn't have a good system to tell the accounts, the leads were bad. So have switched those out of P. Max Glenn goes a mensch own back-end systems for the win. Yes, unique back-end systems to do anything with Google these days. As learns response question, once and depends on the brand I'm working with for everyone. I use the PVC platform data, some clients we use data warehouse data to show various data points, like new to file, lifetime, value and more.

6:51 Some we use other platforms like Salesforce for B2B Julie also response to question 2 saying, yes, there's less data available now than previously. The most obvious answer is search queries. They have been steadily declining invisibility for a while now and she continues ad performance data. Responsive search ads. You just can't tell which parts are working on resonating. Like you used to be able to when testing text ads against each other. I miss those insights a lot Christian response to that same. Definitely can be seen with performance Max by still see visibility with keyword performance on search campaigns. Is that what you're referring to Julie goes. I'm lucky if I see 50% of the queries of these days, even converting ones which is extra maddening and Superman name. If you have a low conversion, volume campaign, and half of You're converting keywords are effectively invisible and we are Sophie Logan responding to question 2 saying, the Search terms report, visibility issue has been the biggest disappointment for me, especially when working with smaller budgets, where you're trying to make every penny Count Christian response to question 2 as well. Saying when we went from standard shopping too smart, we lost the ability to see keyword data. Now, it performance Max, they introduced New pieces to shopping and the lack of visibility as to which creative assets ad, copy, Etc.

8:08 Connected to conversions are missed the most and we are then have a corresponding to that team and P Max and shopping. Never go well together. Really Kristen goes have you tried a shopping only asset group on performance. Max. Interesting test, I love that. Not only do we give answers. We give different ways that you can do testing, love it, learns response to question. 2 saying I do miss all the query data we used to have. But I work with a lot of companies with great data, we can still pull from to make a decisions. And changes. If you do catalog podcast, television and other form of ads. Your data needs to be on point Glenda response. To question 2 saying I have a longer-term concern about data going behind a pay wall. Take the case of Twitter ads data which will no longer be free via API.

8:56 This forces marketers to ask is it worth the dollars for data about my performance. Don't like where this is heading Julie goes. Seems like platforms are looking for all kinds of ways to charge for access. Eight excetera I hadn't heard this about Twitter, I took goes, yeah I fired. This is going to lead where clients will get concerned and asked our decision-making ability for performance. Do you think it's coming? I think that's already here. Lawrence also then responds to Julie, wish I'd say seems like platforms are looking for all kinds of ways to charge for Access learn skills. The platforms are getting lazy, finding ways to make Revenue, brings me back to the article. You shared Julie of the shitty fication of these companies, as a lovely.

9:38 A word, they start putting things behind pay walls, that should not be until he goes. I think social platforms are about to find out just how little they are valued by their users. If they want monthly dollars from them they clearly have not paid attention to what is happening in streaming. People won't subscribe to endless Services, they will Parrot Eyes. Yeah some of them will go learn skills. Yes. And at least streaming platforms have something. Someone may sign up for a month or two every couple of years to binge watch a show. Social platforms will just play Lose users. When I retire I will probably delete most of my social accounts just saying. Yeah, if we're not really talking about marketing, I don't talk on Twitter about anything personal. It's all about things to do with marketing or frustrations. I'm having with my why core things I want to share with the marketing Community.

10:24 Not really anything else. Sir if I retired by quit will be the point of me using Twitter, right? Anyway, Ashton response question to saying, definitely yes for starters singing less queries in certain reports on Google ads on LinkedIn demographics reports rarely We include conversion data for specific segments, Facebook conversion data fields, unreliable after iOS, 14.5. He continues even in platforms like Lucas Studio formerly Google data Studio. We're finding that certain combinations of variables will result in errors or aren't compatible anymore. Example, applying a specific filter, two tables with conversion data ga4, quota limits, Etc. Finally, he goes at not having more data for RSA assets like specific headlines or descriptions is extra fresh.

11:08 Rating as well. Yes, more data for those ad copies would be great. So we have then question 3 from Julie and her asking, has the quality and or reliability of your PPC data changed where or in what way has it changed the most praised Andrews. Answers, question to same, definitely, less data platform wise. But interestingly, it's been an easier conversation to have about the importance of first-party data which clients. So on that form it's been much improved. Improved and then Lauren's response to question 3 saying yes but not showing the data. We all know we are getting shown for things. We should not be, this is leading to increased bad. Spend for advertisers again that centers are not sure I did the whole tone of it properly.

11:54 Yeah so Lawrence went yes by not showing the data. We all know we are getting shown for things. We should not be anyway. Hope you got what? What he meant. The Christian response to question 3 saying in platform I wouldn't say the real Ability changed other than some of the lower visibility however, moving to service side with outside analytics to compare against has definitely helped Sophia response. Question to in regarding to. Yeah. Do you find you have less PPC data to work with? Absolutely she says, mainly search term seen only impressions in our essays and very minimal data from P Max. Yes, the the dreaded pmax, Julie response. Question, 3, seen targeting data has also gotten a lot less detailed. The targeting of pre 2021 is no longer that is a cross-platform particularly on social gland responds to be honest. Some of that social targeting was too granular. Enabled too many bad actors to do. Psychologically manipulative stuff, Julie continues. Very true look-alikes and similar audiences which in my opinion were the absolute.

12:59 Super power of social advertising are not what they once were due to this as well. Glenn goes yes hard to beat. Good. Look alike. Audiences. Yeah, look like audience this house. I've been working out for you. Phrase. Andrews response. Question. 3. Saying now I having a greater role with clients about the first party data we need. And why it's important quality is much better platform wise. However, mmm, dot, dot dot Glenn response to question. Three, same quality, Google ads information is available direct from the API. If you make a gcp, a see if you create a transfer, if you pause the data structure. And if you write SQL to fetch right Fields, you You can get a quality answer. A minority of people are willing to do this. I think a minority of people just don't have that technical capability to write SQL.

13:47 So, yeah, those skills would be very much needed. I work for this lady in my job at zoopla and she was really great at SQL and show such a lovely person. But so intelligent. And that way, and we really use her as a great resource actor response and can you share some resources for this? I should use MySQL learnings from high school or interesting. At least formal education comes to use in some And Glenn goes, I check out data 36.com and that's a handle. So add data, 36 underscore calm. He has pretty good primer material. The next leg of Journeys opening, big data in bigquery and playing around with SQL. Interesting actor, goes, I'll check it out. Julie goes, well, in Google analytics for really requires using bigquery, a heck of a lot more than regular people can manage.

14:34 Absolutely, this includes taking data into Lucas Studio formerly Google dead Studio. It's all going Enterprise for all, which is such a dumb play. And then we have Sophie, Logan, responded to question three. Same, the quality of the first party data. I use has increased over the years. I find that businesses are more efficient at managing their own data, which in turn helps me. Yes, I'm glad that clients and just brands have been listening to this whole issues about first, party data, and data, previously and cookies, until working on their first party data. Better Ashton response to question 3 saying yes, especially She on social and with the rollout of go4, where seen more discrepancies in conversion data across platforms cross-channel. / multi-touch attribution will never be perfect, but the differences between platforms and CRM, seems to be more significant recently and then we have Christine responding to question to seeing very much but I still have enough for the moment.

15:30 I will say work from home, shifts made demographic data more visible which was cool. Interesting John response question 3 saying Yes, we noticed the profitability of campaigns will slowly lose the efficiency, but once we introduced end-to-end tracking, we've seen stronger returns. I think it's a matter of retraining, the machine learning to focus on the signals of users who turn into CW deals, Sofia the response. To question, 3 saying, I have only recently found out that audience data observations you, see in the Google ads, platform is not accurate and you shouldn't base, your decisions on that data and rather use GA data that attributes more. Metrics to each audience type.

16:10 Interesting. I wonder how she found that out, Derek responds. Why would observation data being G analytics reports on actual results? Not observations. No, Sophia goes. Sorry I probably haven't phrase that right? I meant that you can't trust audience data that you see in the Google ads, audience tab as it attributes, all metrics by force to different audiences, based on random guest. Whereas in GA you have the accurate metrics for each audience and she continues my ignorant, self thought, I can just look at which audience in the audience tab performs best in each ad group of campaigns that I have an observation to make decisions in test things and use a targeted audience. Oh don't worry. Sofia it's good to learn these things out loud so I don't see that as ignorant at all.

16:55 I hope she figured out what she wanted to Julie. Then takes us on to question for even saying are there any data points that you can no longer access or use because they have gone away? What type of data falls into this category for you? How Are you handling the data loss? I mean the data losses sqr dot data. Losses are essays known exactly what variations of AD copies working and the data loss is like yeah GA for knowing how to track better and just the whole issues of knowing how to create the reports and data points in j4, I'm getting definitely other people to help me with that Christine their response to question, 3 saying, I have been lucky to have the backend and front-end data management. Increasing in quality agnostic of any changes to the platform's. I haven't felt a lead quality.

17:38 T-Pain as much interesting, Dwayne Brown response to question. Two seen at least in e-comm DTC and Sass. We have moved data that we have ever have in the platform's. I mentioned, we can see less data in ad platforms, due to Black Box pairing platforms. And outside data together is a huge skill that will only become more in demand. Christian response. Question forcing, one of the newer data points removed is the ability to Target similar audiences on Google ads. I also missed the ability to see average position by keyword. Yeah. No I don't EXA response. Question for saying I would love to get insights from those doing omni-channel be to be for long sales cycles and P Max only ecomp both. It becomes a huge pain for me.

18:20 While tracking data wearing brown response, to question three, seen Apple's IOS. 14.5, comes out almost two years ago. Google's future less cookie play. More black boxing has meant less data in ad platforms. Actor goes, how do you communicate this to your clients doing? Especially when Coins, ask you regarding pmax optimization for e-comm Durango's, just explain what is happening. Why? And how we plan to navigate it, or what we can control on our and explain it as if I am talking to my mom? Yes, just be honest. And dumb it down. That's a little bit. Shown early response question for say, nothing gone away. Completely yet - the in platform stuff, but I think it's just a matter of time. Obviously, ga4 will be a big one but if you are using cookies for tracking, I think that will be on the chopping block soon.

19:08 Dan Brown response. Question forcing. We can access data, but we don't have access to a hundred percent of it. Like before, anything semi customer related is becoming harder to access. SQL data is a good one in Google ads, Julie, respond, same data points. Being gone is hitting targeting now, but I expect that we will continue to see or have access to less and less within the ad platforms. It will be positioned as either for privacy or automation for your success. Absolutely. Right. It's all about data, privacy stuff with them. And then we have Julie taken us on to question five. Same, if you could wave a wand and change something about PPC data today, what would it be and why bring it all back? Bring search. Query date of bag. Give a better RSA data.

19:50 Bring etas back. Yeah. Because we could see dates on a much more, granular level with that one. Adrian, James goes, yeah, go back to exact match. Meaning exact match manual bidding, instead of smart building and give us back data like position and Search terms with all Search terms Julie goes. I would love to have Exact match against short of that, please just stop calling it exact match. It should really be totally Broad and pretty broad. I have this point or somewhat broad. Adrian goes where mainly using brood and it does my head in. It just means continually adding negative keywords might as well just have one campaign and say, fuck it Google. Do your thing. Hmm, excuse my, French Julie responded saying I'm pretty sure that is their goal State. Adrian goes, that's what worries me managing response to question.

20:36 Five same bring back broad match. Each modifiers and Accords a tweet he wrote in 2021 green I miss broad match modifier and Randy Marcus responding. I'd like a clearer understanding of what changes to a campaign will trigger a learning or altered state in the era of automated bidding. I've been told budget and bids but I've seen it with composition changes. So new opposed keywords ad groups Etc. Interesting and then show Natalie response to question five saying yeah. Ga4 throw it in the trash can start over and We have Julia's while responding to question five saying, so many things visibility of all search query data is my number one. If I'm paying for the click, I deserve to see the query period. Let me see how assets are sa components, perform. I did actually use to learn from add tests and use outside platform.

21:26 Robert, Brady response to question five seen radical transparency from online. Ad platforms. Start with users, tell them how data will be used allow or real opt out all the way through to add Advertisers performance stats on everything. Christian response, question five saying that I would love PBC to provide video screen shares of the journey from the search to the ad, click to the journey on your website. That represents the average of interactions over a given period of time. That sounds like a more advanced way of doing other kind of reporting. Anyway, action response to question for saying not really any major ones yet but some of the reports we use in Google analytics you a will need to be Created. If possible in GA for the looker Studio G, A for quotas are also frustrating for reporting purposes. For we can work around that by reviewing the platform itself at a response.

22:20 Question, 5 seem to be honest, nothing, I guess, I think eventually it was bound to happen. Tech Evolution does and will affect every aspect of human efficiency and revenue. Jen, I would find more ways to educate myself and my clients and get more genuine insights from platforms. Written response. Question forcing, I think targeting is the biggest hit. And summer data is less clear. Ultimately privacy is necessary inconvenient or not and is Shifting the focus of targeting back to how we message, which is more important everyday quality creative and messaging is huge as 10:00 response. Question fighting ad headline and description level data for our essays, bring back visibility into search term reports. In looker Studio, increase the quota limits for GA for data and give more details.

23:08 Round errors so that we can try to work around them better Gilligan goes. Last question of the day are there any data points? You're worried about diminishing or going fully away in the near future? What's got you concerned about these particular data points? Yeah I think like in terms of keywords we're going to see less, I think we're going to be only having keywords that we can bid on. You know, tons of broad match type only, that would be the only match type of available worried about that definitely and our essays will just become A lot more automated actor response to questions fixing you. A data J. For it may have better tracking, but still, I would like to work with. Both Cinelli response, I'm worried. It will become harder to get CRM or first-party data into the platform's.

23:52 I'm not entirely confident in the data in platform or j4 first-party data is most reliable. And if it becomes harder or impossible to get into the accounts that is worrisome, Glenn goes wouldn't mind noodling with you on this offline show? No. Okay. Absolutely. Vibration going on there. Love it. Christian response to question five saying audience data, search query data, add performance data, bid auction data and not in mice. It however, you like, but give me the chance to splice the numbers or to gain some learnings, especially sqr. I used to live for that hot. Search term gossip. Give me the juice, then response, question, 16. I don't like them bearing competitive metrics like percentage top of impression share as it.

24:33 Erodes faith in the auction, but I'm afraid in this instance, the fox is Is already in The Henhouse brynbrown response to question. Five saying, getting sqr data would be really nice. What we wish we could fix our cross-channel attribution data. So we never have to talk about it. Again, people want to solve something that is almost impossible to solve with current setup or Tech Christian response to question 6 since I, yes, but I think I'm going to dwell Less on what I can't change and more on what I can impact. We need to be more than just data measurement to succeed with. Ingenuity. And yeah, that is the truth about where we are right now. There's some things that are just going to change. I took those I'll go sleep now.

25:16 Zero energy, left bless. I wish I could nap it as well. Well, it is 2 a.m. my time. That's a little insight as to when I record these. But yeah, to a my times, I'm hoping to get a good night's rest after I record this as 10 clock response to question 6 saying, Google always makes me nervous and I would hate to see every campaign type end with the same level of insights that. Vmax campaign has, for example, getting rid of the cert times reports entirely which would have a drastic impact on performance and optimization Chile response to question 6. And I'm concerned, we are going to get a lot of more trending type data instead of actual data in the not too distant future. We need to rethink where our value will lie. When we can't create competitive advantages for our clients by making direct changes, and on that note, Julie brings us to the end of Is chat.

26:08 So yes that was like a very interesting chat about data where we're seeing it going. What we fear the most how would like things to be turned around? Do you share those opinions? Do you want to share some of your opinions about that you definitely still have time to share that in this chat either comment on you know tweet about it put the BBC chat and hash tag on it or join us on Thursday for the same chat that's going to be happening at 5 p.m. GMT 12 p.m. eastern time where Julie will be leading that chat again on Twitter. Spaces. So yeah and the hope you found the talk to useful and hope you've taken some great takeaways from it for any feedback about the podcast, or maybe even some correction on anything that has been shared. Do get in touch with me, my Twitter DM's are open, but yeah, please don't come and tell me anything it on my handle the marketing, a new or reach out to me on LinkedIn.

26:57 We also have the PBT chat Roundup podcast group so join us there. It would also be great for long-standing members and brand new listings, to give the podcast a rating or review. Why don't you go to Dot-com, /p PC chat on the score. Round Up to leave that in literally just takes seconds for Spotify, especially, and yeah, a nice little plug here about our PPC live, UK celebrates women's History Month. Next month on the 30th of March, we're going to have three amazing speakers. We working on their topics, this week that will be released by the end of this week or beginning of next week. As to what the topics are going to be about. Just go to PC live at UK.com and you'll get all the information about it. Finally remember for your campaigns and businesses to Glide smoothly?

27:43 There's a lot of hard work needed beneath the surface, so keep this one's kicking by and speak to you next week.