EP237 - Brand Safety in PPC

0:00 Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the PPC chat round up our second episode of the year. How are you finding January? I hope you've caught up. I don't feel like I have, I feel like I'm running behind a bus just riding too fast but yeah, it's a good workout anyway. Anyway, in today's episode, we have Julie taken us on another great topic. Talking about brand safety in PPC. Yeah. Very important topic. You know, those of news going on, loads of different, kind of web side, the Internet is very busy and being able to keep safe in being able to do exclusions properly, especially with displaying programmatic. And those kind of, you know, media, buying platforms, being able to actually really ensure that your brand is showing against a site that has your similar values that is not kind of porn sites. That is not, you know, controversial kind of new sites news that you're not necessarily you know in line with or agree with.

0:56 Yeah you want to be really really really careful about. What your side show against, and really be on top of brand safety. So, we talked about the platforms where the clients are worried about this, the platforms are doing this well or not doing this, well, how we keep on top of this and how you work with brands on it? So yeah. Hope you enjoyed the chat. Hello and a warm, welcome to this episode of the PPC chat Roundup a podcast way. I round up the Twitter discussion that happens on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. GMT. I'm your host annual, I'm recording from my studio here in London UK.

1:37 And I use this platform to share not just expert but also my ideas and considered best practices about paid media and the direction, the digital industry is going. Going in. So if you want to keep up to date with my tips and tricks in the industry, and get the latest on the podcast that has been called your go-to if you don't make it to the PPC chat live discussions and even if you do then like follow share and retweets on. That's right. Twitter with my handle the marketing, a new or join us on our LinkedIn Group, which is the PPC chat Roundup podcast, or if you're on Instagram, why don't you check us out at PPC, chat on the score, Round Up to get quotes and Snippets from our previous episodes, So we have Julie taken us on a great topic as I mentioned earlier on talking about brand safety in PPC.

2:23 So how do you do that with clients are your clients worried about these kind of things. Yeah, it looks like from first question, when Julie asked, whether people are worried about this, whether their clients are worried about this, I feel like I was very much in the minority where none of my clients have really brought it to my attention. Maybe they are worrying about it but they just not letting us know just yet. So yeah, loads of clients worry. About this. So if you are one of those of your clients is one of those, this is a great chat to be listening to. So Julie, Texas, insane, hello? And thank you for joining today. We are going to be talking about brand safety and PPC. But first, how we doing? And as I said earlier on, I was like, I'm feel like I'm running behind the first speeding bus that is this year.

3:07 Great workout. It's keeping me on my feet. Already, Gil gonna respond saying, doing great. Hope everyone else is doing well to Diana. Lena goes, I'm fine. Ready for the second PPC chat of the. Yes. So where are we today? So we're we do device also joins us a morning PVC chat Farm doing okay right back into the madness. Yeah, tell me about it down. Patterson goes, Hello, friends, took a break from Twitter for a bit but figured I'd start to check in to these chats hair and there when I can and yeah, we're happy that, you do Robert, Brady goes, I only use Twitter fire tweetdeck and the PBC communities, all I pay attention to too much other nonsense going on. On tell me about it.

3:47 Don Patterson goes, that's what I'm moving to more and more I took about two years of Twitter. When the pandemic hit, then took a break with all the other craziness. Figured I dip my toe back in the water, but don't plan to use it much except for chats like this. So, yeah. Are you also one of those are Twitter is a mess. I highly recommend tweetdeck. Literally, you just create different Columns of exactly what she want to see. My columns are home. The PPC chat handled, PPC, chat and Industry, PPC advertising. It's SEO chat because I love following the SEO Community women in marketing my profile, the PPC live UK profile. Just my notifications and my bookmarks so they did anyone that I don't follow am I don't see what's trending. I don't see all the fact, the random tweets from random people.

4:34 It's very marketing focused anyway Boris Becker's. Well goes doing great today. After two months of basically living on a camping site, our new kitchen got finally delivered today and will be set up by the end of tomorrow. No more take out whoo-hoo. I don't know whether the kids will find that to be fun though. Boris I'm sure the kids have been having a field day getting eaten like it. Well McDonald's or chicken nuggets that kind of stuff nearly every day. Who knows? But yeah, Dooley's PSA comes about as usual. Very helpful going before we get to questions, this chat is intended for PPC, Professionals of all levels. So if you have something you want to share, please do we are a friendly and supportive Community, please.

5:16 Be afraid to participate luck. As are, of course, always welcome lurkers and the listeners of the podcast, people who are not a fan of Twitter, you are welcome to this episode. So let's just get into question 1. So he asked brand, safety is a big topic of discussion, so let's get to it. Question, 1 is brand safety and major concern for the Brand's, you are currently working with and why, or why not? Kirk Williams goes. We see brands most concerned about brand safety, when either one They're big enough to have a brand people want to sue or cancel or to their super doubt into how they want to think about their brand or their own personal convictions and we met Gary goes. It's ridiculous in 2023 for Google to have a black box, trust us approach to their display inventory. Removing a blocking site from showing your ads, needs to be possible with far.

6:09 Less friction, especially as debate is toxic in the arson clickbait engagement, Biz, Moto and Ikes. Go go. No response to question one saying I would say, although most brands are probably conscious of brand safety, it's pretty low in the priority list since the issue doesn't come up a whole lot. Very rare to have a big branding issue pop up for most of our clients. And yeah, we have same hair with me. Christen a new member of the community. She introduced herself earlier on, she was very welcomed into this community. Kristen goes, hi. All I can understand the concern of keeping the Integrity of a brand solid, when the opportunities. For it to show across the internet are vast. This is why I'm very strict about the creative we deploy. So Google can't create them for us and then we have Julia voice responding to question ones and absolutely it's a different flavor for public sector.

7:01 But all my clients are very concerned about brand safety on any platform protecting their brand and partnering with creators that are in harmony with their values than Patterson response saying it's definitely a concern, but I often wonder if there's more I should be doing. In to watch or manage it. Hope you all have some insights in that regard. John Keegan response saying in traditional sem no wedding, YouTube ddnp Max etcetera. It is incredibly concerning major International and domestic events have wreaked. Havoc leading us pulling, placements, left and right. Not to mention all of Twitter. Wow, there is Chase response. Same brand. Safety is massive concern. For most of my clients, where the medical btb or even big entertainment brands most require acts of Congress, just to approve some copy in medical. It's even worse.

7:50 Yeah, I can imagine Julie advice goes OMG, D-League of companies. I actually need to send a copy to a board for approval while aboard, but sure talk to me about optimizing our ad copy in real time, right? Active response team does it happen every time you set up all tweaked ad copy. So yeah, that's in response to a Lawrence needing act of Congress just to prove that copy Lawrence goes. Oh yeah. Some Brands require legal to review any image or copy that's put anywhere so yeah you can't even tweak a certain things and active response to that saying oh I remember working with volatile assets trading. They literally had a team of legal compliance officers managing and reviewing copies. We have Melissa McKee responding to question one saying yes yes yes our Enterprise B2B clients are very strict brand guidelines that must be followed this often precludes the use of pmax Discovery, YouTube gdn Etc.

8:46 First Response saying, for some brand it is, I just started working with a big Telco and they are extremely concerned about brand safety for others. It is not at the Forefront, Julia herself response saying yeah. Brand safety is not a huge topic, unless client is doing display of some kind and even then, they don't often bring it up as a huge concern. I'm concerned about it though and try to do what I can to keep my clients Brands away from an unsafe placements. Yeah, even though they don't care about it, I think those kind of reports should be fed back. To the clients to show them, especially how much work it does take for paid search manager, to ensure that a client's brand is performing, well, because during that whole, yeah, it's like saving it from sites that are a little bit dodgy. I'm sure helps a lot of for conversion rate, click-through rates and those kind of efficiency metrics. So, I'll say my clients aren't really concerned about that right now.

9:39 Should that be worrisome? Should they be concerned about it and bars goes, it's never a concern until you end up getting cold out on social. As for running ads on Britt Bart or some other BS site. Johnny response saying if you are running on the gdn or using DV 360 then it should be on their radar. Ultimately depends on the kind of activity you are running. If it's paid search or Facebook I'd be more concerned about ad fraud and Julia herself as well response saying. I think it can be one of those things where it was not on anyone's radar and then their ads shows up next to some truly offensive or awful content and you get a screenshot and then it Huge, big deal and learn skills this, if they see it somewhere bad, also some of my clients care but it's not on their Radar.

10:23 Really, if you have clients in a highly regulated Industries or they are big household name. It becomes a bigger issue. Yeah. And Julie goes none of us wants to get that email or text with the screenshot of the, add text to hateful, terrible offensive content along with how did this happen. Yeah, you do not want that email, and then we have some responding to questions. Wanting absolutely brand. Safety is a significant concern for most clients Ashton clock, response question. Once a most of my clients have never expressed an explicit concern over brand safety, other than use this messaging, if that counts, but we still build our campaigns and set up accounts with it. In mind example, adding children's YouTube channels as an account level exclusion as a very good tactic, ran scholar in response to question once a not so much of a priority for my clients but I can certainly Tenley. See why it would be important for big Brands running display campaigns and then we have actor responding to question one saying matters.

11:24 A lot of for some of their highly regulated but I'm curious whether we are talking about wrong placements, or wrong messaging and AD copy. Yeah, I think we're wrong place. Wrong placement, definitely delivers response brand. Safety is a category term both and more than both apply. I tell response saying I see. So basically our mmpp, see where reputation nations are not only influenced by human minds but also Tech then Julie takes us on to question 2. Saying, what is your most pressing brand safety concern or issues today? Kirk Williams respond, saying how difficult it is for Brands, who care about brand safety to not appear in the places. They don't want to appear in Boris response saying proliferation makes it harder and harder to stay on. Stay, on top of things less Control. Plus the algorithm knows best equals two more opportunities. To show next to less-than-ideal content, delivers respond saying I'd say Partners placements and messaging. There are some concerns about media dollars going to unsavory platforms versus individual placements but mostly it's the tried-and-true.

12:32 Does this message. This crater or this placement aligned with our vision for ourselves. John Keegan response saying misinformation or blatant lies and seemingly less, and less amount of Regulation by platforms to fight it. It thanks Elon for making it worse. Diana Lena response in being sure. We don't appear on unsafe, placements, or that our ad copy is not on brand style-wise. And then, yeah, Tim hollering response to question. One saying, I'd say brand, safety is important to more than half of my client specifically fintech crypto consumer Healthcare and local government less. So, for more e-comm retail clients in wall art, manufacturing apparel, excetera Julie, response to question 2, saying the continued obfuscation.

13:16 Of placements is a big one, green General, lack of transparency in platforms limits on placement, exclusions campaign types where you have to, just take all the placements to get the ones you actually want. Uh-huh. P Max and yeah, bars response to that saying yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking as well. The taking away, control comes with increased risk of showing up on questionable, placements or with auto-generated assets down partisan response saying. Definitely, one of the reasons I've been incredibly has Oughtn't to even consider P Max. Yes we will be very hesitant to consider P Max for those kind of reasons. Go gonna respond saying, ironically enough, our closest brand safety concern last year was with a client who found one of those.

13:59 Terrible! Google generated. Pmax videos placed on a totally irrelevant Channel complete with childish music. Google generated. Pmax video. Oh, Lord against irrelevant Channel. We had to Nuke that pretty quickly. The client must have been quite pissed by that actor response to that same. It looked totally shit when P Max pulled way down matched images of products and was using it for display and video. O Lord that does not sound like a fun thing for p Max. Well no fun thing by P Max not for p Max huh? Melissa Mickey response to question 2 saying this along with unsavory content or lack of moderating example.

14:42 What has happened recently with Twitter clients? Don't want to show up next to hate speech or controversy, more response to that. Yeah, but Twitter usage is higher than ever. Yeah, Melissa goes LOL. Yeah. They don't care about whether you're shooting against irrelevant content. Yeah. Just the engagement is great. Ashton Clark is sponsoring. First thing that comes to mind is lack of visibility into placements for p Max campaigns and the search Partners Network. Other than that clients mostly seem concerned about using the right messaging and following brand guidelines more. Anything else Melissa takes another answer to question, 2. Same, the lack of transparency. Overall is a troubling trend for our clients.

15:23 They will pull out of channels altogether if they lose too much control, learns, Chase response to question 2. Same the videos Google makes in P Max and placements are big ones. Basically no brand who has branded safety concerns should ever use any auto applies, especially since they can change them, Julia voice response to that saying, well, and the fact, Fact that it will fully make a video for you. Who was in the product brainstorm when that came up pretty much in sure, it won't get used by anyone without a product production budget and actor response to question two saying, I answered these as if I'm the owner and Advertiser in PPC, I would never want it to affect my Brand's image, and we'll try to look at it closely at every aspect. There are aspects of the our control and not later. Ones are bigger.

16:14 Pains in the eyes. Samara heart response. Question to saying Display Network ads, going into black hole. Jillian, takes us on to question 3. Saying, do you think some platforms handle brand, safety better than others? Who is the best? Who is the worst? They are. Here's where we met my shame. Some Brands I'm platforms hair to answer that. We've got Lawrence going. Google is still one of the best. Since you do not have to use the campaign's, that will get you into trouble. They still have a lot of control in other campaign types platforms, like Spotify. You cannot control what music or podcasts. Your ads show up with currently, but how do you do targeting? That's very interesting. But yeah, Tim Heller and response to question to same. Yeah, I've noticed it falls on the three buckets things, you can't control internally.

17:01 Why? Internal client prep things. You can't control during campaign, build. And lastly things you couldn't have predicted without experiencing it first. The unpredictable things are the most rare. In my opinion, he continues lately, it seems I More issues with automation getting in the way of brand safety, more than the three things above though. Even if I follow a platforms TOS, terms of security automated disapprovals are, like, and expected hurdle to jump, nowadays. It didn't used to be like that. Yeah, that's quite a pickle. You have Julie given another chance to question to our beliefs. And I have long said that the Google Display Network is full of really, really bad placements.

17:43 I think she meant to answer question 3 hair. Most Are just terrible sights, not brand, safety concerns, but the limit exclusions to a 10,000, which sounds like a lot until you run a campaign for a while. With lots of volume cock respond saying, I've wished for rule-based exclusion option for specific words in placements, for a long time, Julie goes Google, doesn't want to talk about the gdm because if it did it would have to admit so much of its utter garbage. Yep, I said it ha ha Julie's not holding back here. Is a response in obviously audience dependent, but I've taken to Turning ads off, Coco melon or SpongeBob by default. Regardless of exclusions, this YouTube channels in particularly always end up on placement list.

18:29 Wow, Kirk responds, average age of the kid watching. KOCO melon would support this decision. Not even like they're old enough to tell their parents about the ad. They saw exactly cook Fred's. A goes having to explain to a very serious B2B client why they're big data ads with show. Going on, Thomas, the Tank Engine was an eye-opener although I had heard Thomas moonlights as a data analyst. So who knows Richard? Fergie response in as an angry colleague. Once put it to our Google rep. You limit us to 10,000 exclusions, but there is no limit to the amount of shit on the internet, who excuse my French here today, but people do not play nice when talking about Brian safety Diner, Lena response saying hearts. Say you need to answer question 3. I would sing Pinterest would be the safest place on the worst. It can be many depending on what your brand promotes, I don't see any AD platform in particular focusing, its efforts on brand safety more than on anything else. Boris response to question 3 saying, I don't think any particular platform is doing this incredibly well, why it is just so expensive to employ moderators. So they like to pass responsibility onto their users, Melissa respond, same LinkedIn and Google are probably still the best as Lauren says, you don't have to use the programmatic campaign types in Google yet. Being used to be good until they added for stopped in to the Audience Network.

19:58 Now, that's problematic. Yes, Lawrence response. Yeah, when Microsoft force that they lost their Sports and Melissa goes. Yep. Incredibly bad. Move on their part from what was a platform with great controls and they are. We have Melissa continuing answer to question 3 saying West is probably Twitter. Now along with maybe Tick-Tock although we don't use Tick-Tock for B2B, Twitter is a hot mess. Julia voice response question, 3 saying the West. So these have changed hands over time. Right now. It's Twitter. It's just a mess display. Not just gdn is pretty rough. YouTube needs to do more and Tick. Tock is a fully automated Black Box. Fun times Gil gonna response to question, three, same, I don't really look at it from a platform perspective.

20:42 Nearly every platform has opportunities, of course, anytime. I'm there's a black box. There is less control. Our job as marketers. Means our whole job is identifying limitations and making sure we place correctly Julie. Tank is another on to question 3 saying. It's super interesting that yeah, no one is mentioned in Facebook or Instagram has been the best or worst. Twitter is a hot mess right now from a brand safety perspective, Tim Halloran goes oddly enough. I never worry too much about brand safety on Facebook or Instagram, maybe that's naive, but if I'm certain of my audience, Then I don't necessarily care if their feed is full of garbage friends and Page his cock response. I think this is because placements are based on audience data, right?

21:26 So, it's not like the placement of it itself can ever really be a problem. That's interesting. Julie goes. I think you're less likely to get a screenshot of an ad. Next to something on Facebook or IG because the other stuff in the feed is already based on that user's interests, Etc. So, even if your ad is next to something, vile the person Is likely not offended by it maybe and cargos. Yeah. I think that's it. Exactly. It's not like it's the advertisers fault for that users preference. Facebook is more likely to take the blame and has G device goes. I'm certain that these traits are headlines are making room for Zuckerberg to get away with murder. Yeah. With all the stuff that, you know, mosque is doing right now.

22:08 I wonder what Zuckerberg is up to give. Another answer to question. Three girls respond saying that said Tik-Tok Is the worse. It's gonna get banned. It's so bad. What? Really interesting. It's a good thing. I never really paid attention to it. Christmas wants to question to sing, one of my concerns comes from Google's push for us to trust, their AI creative without giving us visibility into where ADS show such as in performance. Max phrase, Andrews respond saying yes. Hey guys, I have definitely concerns about Twitter at the moment. Brand safety wise, the combination of questionable. All accounts and users who have had accounts re-enabled has made Twitter a mess, Christian response to question three saying, I don't think there's any one platform, which is better than the other when it comes to Brand safety. Ashton clock, respond saying, Google and Microsoft ad, still let you add placements, exclusions and negatives for search campaign.

23:06 So I guess I'd say those two platforms, do it better than others? Other than opting out of audience networks. It doesn't feel like there's as much And on LinkedIn and Facebook Julian and takes us on to question for wait, before we answer that Fraser Andrews response to question three saying, in terms of understanding of demographics, there's a lot of spammy sales focused bits on Tech talks, which I'm sure shouldn't be focused around younger audiences. Julian Texas audience, question for saying, are there any initiatives that you have stopped and or plan to stop or pause due to Brand safety concerns or any, that you've just decided? Did not to do because of brand safety issues or concerns. Actor response to question 3, saying, I delve in the realm of outbound and PPC, and data privacy aspects of both from my experience, nowadays, it's really tough to say. I was talking with a client around, how we can pull in size from clients, internal strategies and he said they are mediators who do it.

24:08 Dinah response to question forcing happily. It hasn't been the case for us yet. Also, yeah, I think is another answer to question. Same, I don't run any Twitter campaigns by imagine, it's a mess right now to not sure if this would qualify as a brand safety concern necessarily but as a general Twitter user, I've also seen some pretty terrible and weird sketchy ads being served in the last two to three months. Yeah, lots of sketchiness on Twitter, Gil response to question forcing. We've been very cautious with pmax lately and make sure to prevent Google from auto-generating anything other than that hasn't been a big deal. So, for most of our clients setting campaigns up properly at first will prevent a lot of myths, placement, Julia voice response to question for saying Twitter. Definitely thinking about trusted partners for display versus gdn, even for smaller campaigns basically, how can we build relationships rather than platform dependence and Lawrence response to question for saying, P. Max is the biggest one, a lot of Brands just cannot do it because of the risk videos, placements, Etc. And then yeah Ashton response to question for as well. See, not really mentioned this in other answers, but most of my clients, really only care that we are using the right messaging or brand guidelines.

25:26 I still care about where ADS show, but we try to mitigate that on our end and it's never been a roadblock for the client and then Kristen response to question. Forcing, I can't say there are any brand safety concerns which would cause me to completely stop an initiative. I always find a way you go first response to Enforce a no Twitter whatsoever. Also, careful with P Max. And if doing it, making sure campaign setup meticulously with great assets and then yeah, Julie takes us on to question five saying, what is on your brand? Safety? Wish list for platforms? This can be a general wish or specific to a platform.

26:06 Dilg only responds saying honestly just give me complete insight into where ADS have been placed and I'll be good. They are very little granular placements that I care about. Them being next to adult or violent content, which are already banned by most platforms, Diana response saying. I would love more transparency and control over the places. Our Brands could appear bars, respond saying not strictly from an advertiser's perspective. By just wished platforms. Took moderation and platform safety more. Seriously, some of the stuff on there is not only unsafe for advertisers, but should generally not be viewed by anyone, especially not by children at, To respond saying more control and data, transparency less data. Leakage third-party sources can be a bun or a curse. Depends how it influences and how much control it takes away from you Dooley response to question. Five saying categorical, exclusions that actually fully work would be Fab transparency in where ADS show and the ability to exclude things.

27:07 I don't want better content, moderation on social platforms or at least better tools to not see vile things Julia. Because, yes, let me her not just my audiences but content categories all the way Tim Heller and response to question five saying, I think everyone was pretty unanimous more transparency. If my ad showed tell me where Google ads, imagine if an out of home provider was like your Billboards served in near the Midwest but we can't give you specifics consider driving around till you find it. Imagine Gogol their responses your billboard may or may not have Ben right above one of those abandoned roadside strip clubs in Ohio. Does it really matter?

27:51 Wow. Yeah, that's more like it Melissa goes. Right? This matters in other channels, why not search or social definitely a fair point. Ashton clock response saying these are mostly for Google ads and Microsoft advertising Bots. More visibility into placements, especially for p Max and search Partners. Being able to add campaign level, exclusions for p Max, and not partnering with sketchy sites to You guys to we can dream. LOL, Melissa goes this. And when Diana goes, I would love more transparency and control over the places are Brands could have pair, she continues, more control and transparency. We are happy to test new things but cannot just have ads showing wherever need visibility and the ability to turn off aspects. I don't that know we come to the end of the chat, we shall be having the audio version of this chat on Thursday. The 12th album, 12 p.m.

28:44 EST on time. 5:00 p.m. GMT. So pretty much the same time as the Twitter chat today but on Thursday. Yeah. I hope you took some great takeaways from that. Are you wish list similar? Are they any different extra wish list that you have, please let us know? Just yeah, send your comments and put the hashtag PPC chat with love to hear it. So yeah, hope you found it useful. And if you want to hear more about the topic have more to say about the topic yourself, join us on Thursday for any feedback about the podcast or maybe even Some corrections or anything that has been shed. Please get in touch with me. My DMs are open on, at the marketing, a new, or on LinkedIn. Just find me on there, we've got the PVC chat Roundup group.

29:27 We'd love to have you. There it also be great to all our long-standing and brand new listeners to give the podcast a review, just to show that it's growing. Just to show that it's worth listening to and learning a lot about brand safety. For example, just go to link tree.com /p p c--. That underscore round up. So that's link2sd. Re e.com, /pb, see chat underscore Roundup. Also remember, we've got PPC live UK. The next event of PVC live, UK happening on the 2nd of February. We've got the likes of as Imam. Ahmed, we've got Sophie Logan to top influences of PPC, as rated by marketing, a clock, the amazing podcast and content providers of amazing.

30:13 Paid search news, as well as TM Yoda's. So that's Google tag manager Yoda Tiffany shares of absolute digital as well as Maddie Crawford. Who's going to be talking about ad copy. And yeah, she's amazing young girl who just has been just, you know, running through the ranks of paid search and also talking a different stages. They've all spoken at Brighton sou before a couple of them have spoken at hero conference. So these are some top quality, very high knowledge people in paid search and people know how to really attract a crowd. So 416 pounds, please. Go to PC, live. UK it.com. And please get your ticket there. Finally remember for your campaigns and businesses to Glide smoothly.

30:55 There's a lot of hard work needed. We need the surface, so keep your storms kicking by and speak to you next week.