EP228 - Programmatic Advertising

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Hello and welcome to this week's
episode of the PPC Tat Roundup.

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In today's episode we have Julie
taken us on a topic of

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programmatic advertising and she
has is joined by Mark Poibrier.

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I always get his name, pronounce
his name wrong, Another cookie.

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The cookie crumbles.
So yeah, Mark Poire.

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So that's poi RIER.
There's so many eyes in there,

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One too many eyes for me that
trips my tongue.

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But anyway, she's we're joined
by Mark as well as Ellen Ellen

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Parker.
She is also a programmatic ninja

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out of the US.
I love following her.

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She's got a podcast.
I forget the name, but go and

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check out Helen Parker.
Is her handle is I am Helen.

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Helen with an H but the the H is
silent.

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But yeah, she's got the
programmatic digest podcast.

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If you want to learn about
programmatic, I really high

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highly recommend that you listen
to her podcast and yeah, she

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joins the chat as well.
It was such a shame I didn't

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join it live because we had
changed clocks.

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The clock has gone back one an
hour last week so when I thought

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it was 5:00 the chat had already
happened.

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So it actually happened today at
4:00 PM GMT time or BST time or

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GMT time.
Oh Lord, I'm confused with all

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the clocks changing.
But anyway, I missed it live.

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But it's so great to be able to
do this recap and to hear all

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the amazing people talking about
it.

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Even if I had joined I would
have been larking anyway.

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So because programmatic is not
my Forte, so excited to hear all

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the amazing advice given by the
community today.

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So yeah, hope you enjoy.
Hello and a warm welcome to this

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episode of the PPC Chat Roundup,
a podcast where I round up the

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Twitter discussion that happens
on Tuesdays at 5:00 PM GMT.

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I'm your host Anu and I'm
recording from my studio back in

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London, UK and I use this
platform to share not just

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expert but also my ideas and
considered best practices about

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paid media and the direction the
digital industry is going in.

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So if you want to keep up to
date with my tips and tricks in

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the industry and get the latest
on the podcast that has been

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called your go to, even if you
don't make it to the PPC chat,

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live discussions and even if you
do, then like a follow, share

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and retweet on that right
Twitter with my handle the

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marketing anu Or join us in our
LinkedIn group which is the PPC

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Chat Roundup podcast.
Or if you're on Instagram, why

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don't you check us out at PPC
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quotes and snippets from
previous episodes.

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So yeah, we have Julie with Mark
and Ellen Parker.

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I give her an honorary Co
hosting or Co leading the chat

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today because she is a
programmatic ninja taking us on

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the topic of programmatic
advertising.

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Because yeah, PVC chat is not
just about paid search.

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It's not just about Google ads
or Microsoft ads.

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It encompasses everything that
has to do with paid media, as

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usual.
Yeah, Julie takes us on saying

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that, you know, welcome
everybody.

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Thank you for joining us on this
chat.

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First, how are we doing?
We have several fantastic

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experts to join us today with
Julia, Vice joins us as well as

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Ashton Clark, Steve Gibson, Tim
Halloran as well joins us.

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Daniel Voddy as well joins us.
Clever programmatic is it?

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Oh, yes.
We've got some programmatic

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powerhouses in the house here.
Dog art.

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Thomas as well joins us.
Well, yeah.

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Before we get to the question,
we'll start with Julie's usual

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PS:.
A saying, yeah, before we get

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into the questions, This chat is
intended for PPC professionals

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of all levels.
So if you have something you

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want to share, please do.
We are a friendly and supportive

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community.
Please don't be afraid to

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participate.
Lurkers, as well as just the

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listeners of the podcast as well
are always welcome for sure.

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So yeah, we've got Julie then
taking us on straight into

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question one saying, yeah, we're
going to start with a few

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questions for all and then get
to the questions for Mark.

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What does the term programmatic
advertising mean to you?

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I think it's a fancy word for
display advertising.

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And when I don't mean fancy,
like, oh OK, it's not no

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difference, but programmatic is
more.

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Maybe not fancy is not the right
word, but more advanced version

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of display, more advanced
version of GDA and Google

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Display Network, where you can
do it by not just by impressions

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being by impressions, but also
paying by click.

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And I'd imagine more quality,
the kind of sites that you're

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going to be looking at.
And it's not just display, not

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just sites online.
You can buy TV ads

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programmatically now, but
exactly what you mean by

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programmatically.
I I imagine that you pay you're

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you can more pay more towards
what you're going to receive

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from it.
And not just paying for a

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display.
Probably totally wrong.

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But let's see what Ellen replies
to that.

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So yeah, Ellen goes.
Programmatic means automated.

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Programmatic advertising is
automated.

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Ad placements.
I like to define it as such.

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We use a tech to automate ad
placements on inventory outside

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of social the same way we use
Facebook tech to automate

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placement in Facebook.
So yes, there is the proper

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answer instead of like the very
unknowledgeable answer that I

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gave signal mine, Daniel Varney
goes the future of marketing is

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what programmatic advertising
is.

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I am actually expecting Google
met and other social platforms

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will be forced to open up
auctions to other platforms

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because of legislation.
Ellen goes, whoa, that is a

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serious projection.
They did so once before and the

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Cpm's where oh and she does a
sick emoji, so maybe not a great

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idea.
Actor response response

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programmatic is basically PMAX
plus audio ads on different

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advertising platforms.
Some marketers consider it a

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more advanced form of
advertising because of the

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available inventory, but at the
core it uses the same

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advertising principles.
Steve Gibson goes a display

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network where they they use some
tech to match your ads to

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content.
So yeah, some like is display

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but more advanced version.
So I'd say that that's a part of

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the answer that I gave that is
valid.

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You can throw away the rest.
Mark Mark responds to question

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one saying to me in a slightly
exaggerated way, it just means

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advertising.
Outside the PPC world,

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programmatic is pretty much
everywhere except on paper.

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We haven't solved for that yet.
Yes, Imagine Stephie K Gali K

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Gauls even responds to question
one saying for me it means

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buying a quantity of display ads
at a guaranteed CPM on different

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display networks other than
Google, while harnessing the

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power of machine learning to
find the most receptive

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audience.
So yeah, programmatic has been

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using automation since the
beginning of time.

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It's all about automating and
machine learning.

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Yeah, we can't get away from
that, can we?

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And then Steve Gibson responds
to question one saying, yeah, a

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display network where they use
some tech to match your ads to

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content.
And then Julie herself responds

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saying, yeah, to me,
programmatic advertising means

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display advertising, but at a
different level than the Google

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Display Network.
It's more sophisticated and

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placements are of better
quality.

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Historically, hasn't been super
accessible to small advertisers,

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but that's changing, especially
with, yeah, freelancers and the

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small agencies, Ashton Clarke
responds, saying.

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I've never done programmatic
advertising, but have always

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thought of it as basically being
a more advanced version of

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display.
Same here, but then Julie takes

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us on to question two.
Saying that are you currently

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managing any programmatic
advertising for your clients or

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brands?
If so, what platforms are you

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using?
Before we go to that Doug Art

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Thomas response to question one
saying programmatic is buying

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through a platform to show on
3rd party publishers.

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Using that definition, Google
Display is programmatic, but

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most of Google Search wouldn't
be.

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Facebook ads generally aren't
programmatic, but Fan is FAN.

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Facebook Advertising Network, I
assume is that what that acronym

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is?
Mark also responds.

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I'm not sure whether this is for
question one or question two.

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I think it's question one still.
Yeah, programmatic is

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everywhere.
Besides online display and video

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in game ads, in app ads and
native ads, it's also huge

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business on TV and CTV.
It's an emerging method for out

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of home advertising.
And don't forget audio, radio,

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podcast advertising.
I meet as well response question

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once and I've always understood
it as display ads, but on a more

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advanced complex level.
Then Julie takes us on to

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question two, saying are you
currently managing any

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programmatic advertising for
your clients or brands?

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If so, what platforms are you
using?

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And Daniel Varrigo's using STACK
Adapt as our agency preferred

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platform but have some legacy on
Trade Desk.

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We found for the most part
programmatic platforms are

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similar.
We liked stack adapts, customer

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service, no main budget required
over and over a certain amount

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of budget help on creative Steve
Gibson goes only Google display.

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Hector goes yes, I've used so
many of them for small budgets

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to test like DV360, trade desk,
trade desk, ad mob, et cetera,

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as well as ad roll.
OK oh does she mean ad role

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instead of AdMob?
Marcus said well said yes.

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Oh yes, that's all we do.
And we use many platforms

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depending on what our clients
need.

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Trade decks, Google DV360,
several other more specialized

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these Sp's too.
Ali Mukadan responds to question

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two saying our team uses Amazon
DSP, Media Math, Pragmatic Adx

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to name a few for different
clients.

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Personally, I prefer GDN.
And then we have Dave Gallegos

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responding to question two
saying stack adapt and then we

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have Julie herself responding to
question two saying, yeah, I

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don't really consider GDN to be
programmatic, but technically it

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is.
So I guess I am doing

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programmatic and then we have
Bill Scott responding to what

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Julie had just said saying, yes,
GDN was the OG pro of

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programmatic.
Programmatic is for lazy people

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trying to do what an expert
does.

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Ooh, I feel that's a little bit
of fighting talking there, Bill.

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Ali Mukadam responds saying them
if we go, by definition, yes,

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absolutely 100.
So guessing, yeah, GDN is

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considered as programmatic, can
be considered as programmatic.

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Mark responds saying, Oh yes to
question two saying that's all

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we do and we use many platforms
depending on what our clients

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need.
The Trade Desk, Google DV360 and

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several other more specialized
DSP's.

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To Julia, Vice responds, yes, we
use a few partners including our

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brands, programmatic product.
Tim Halloran responds saying

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yes, I've been dabbling in
simply dot FI, so SIMPLI dot FI

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because of their geofencing and
addressable audience

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capabilities.
I ran a couple campaigns on

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Stack Adapt earlier in the year
and try to use a few others in

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the past with mixed results.
Ashton a response question to

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say Nope, always done to always
down to test though I love the

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way that he's part of
conversation even though, yeah,

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he doesn't have much experience
in it.

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Always good to hear from Ashton
Delgar, Thomas response to

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question two saying I have in
the past, I've sort of decoupled

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from this recently pushing more
for individual publisher buys.

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If this place is the right call,
Tim Halloran responds to

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question one saying what it
means to me.

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Top of my head.
Same thing as regular PPC, but

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better or different or unique
targeting options.

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Because of a mix of data
providers and publishers you may

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not get from other standard
platforms, Sometimes premium

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placements you can't get
elsewhere and then Ellen

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responds.
Question two saying I've seen

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quite a few answers with some
dope Dsp's.

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All excellent choices.
It comes down to what and how we

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want to service our client.
I've trained teams in most of

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the DSP mentioned.
Love it, Daniel Vadhi responds

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saying I've always seen a time
where Google keeps taken away

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levers and insights.
Programmatic actually has a lot

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more to offer than Google ads.
Overall I found programmatic to

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be more nimble and adjust to the
deprecation of a third party

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cookies and that's in the
conversation of where Amit had

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said I've always understood it
as display ads but not on a more

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advanced level and as well joins
the conversation saying I agree

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00:12:57,620 --> 00:13:00,940
Daniel, Google Display Networks
holds a small piece of the pie.

229
00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:05,790
There are over 30 + S SP's or ad
exchange in the ecosystem.

230
00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:09,070
Most offer enough measurement
and transparency which is not

231
00:13:09,070 --> 00:13:11,670
always in GDN.
Tim goes same.

232
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:14,750
They never completely relied on
cookies in the 1st place so

233
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:18,830
their value isn't directly tied
to its demise.

234
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:23,230
Dave goes this so yeah always
worth testing these these guys

235
00:13:23,230 --> 00:13:25,110
out.
Julian takes us on to question

236
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:27,630
three, saying what is your
biggest challenge of frustration

237
00:13:27,630 --> 00:13:30,720
when it comes to programmatic
advertising And I have not

238
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,760
tested it yet and I'm not sure
I'll know how to.

239
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,480
Yeah, dive into it, Daniel Voddi
goes.

240
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,880
For me, it would be more how to
measure the impact of

241
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,280
programmatic.
At the end of the day at scale,

242
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,440
we're still mostly talking about
display, CTV, audio, et cetera,

243
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,160
prospecting.
You still need to have a solid

244
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,880
plan of testing and measuring.
Ali responds saying we do find

245
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,400
some spam traffic coming through
programmatic.

246
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,830
It's true for GDN as well, and
the belief that could be wrong

247
00:13:58,830 --> 00:14:02,270
that programmatic cannot be
leveraged for performance, maybe

248
00:14:02,270 --> 00:14:05,790
because it wasn't supposed to in
the 1st place.

249
00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:08,830
It's a response to that.
Saying yes, invalid clicks and

250
00:14:08,830 --> 00:14:12,110
irrelevant traffic is one of the
biggest issues I face when I run

251
00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:17,230
ads on GDN, Pmax or other native
or programmatic platforms.

252
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:20,610
Curious, how do you avoid
getting this again?

253
00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:24,210
You might hear me saying GDN,
PMAX, GDN is Google Display

254
00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:28,490
Network, PMAX is performance Max
campaigns.

255
00:14:28,490 --> 00:14:31,610
But again, go on
officialppcchat.com, go under

256
00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:33,930
resources and you'll see all the
acronyms we're going to be

257
00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:37,010
talking about here.
Mark as well responds to Hector

258
00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:38,930
going, yeah.
We use a combination of AI

259
00:14:38,930 --> 00:14:45,770
provided by the top tier Dsps
like TTD, Yahoo, DSP and DV360

260
00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:50,230
for example and senior traders,
human intelligence to prevent

261
00:14:50,510 --> 00:14:53,550
irrelevant impressions.
It's a never ending battle,

262
00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:56,110
Hector goes.
Do you also get traffic from

263
00:14:56,110 --> 00:15:00,710
countries that are usually OFAC
sanctioned like in Google, what

264
00:15:00,710 --> 00:15:02,870
is OFAC?
Someone please Google that

265
00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:05,310
please.
Last time I was running for a

266
00:15:05,310 --> 00:15:09,590
Fortune 500 and they got an
attack from a competitor where

267
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:12,870
they were getting huge traffic
and conversions from countries

268
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:17,260
that you can't exclude and
earlier his response to that as

269
00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:20,460
well saying I'm not sure exactly
or you mean by being by an

270
00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:23,220
attack from a competitor.
However, the default targeting

271
00:15:23,220 --> 00:15:26,300
settings should always be people
in or regularly in your

272
00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,940
targeting locations.
But instead of people interested

273
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:35,300
in your targeted locations,
interested in interested is

274
00:15:35,860 --> 00:15:37,940
default setting.
Yeah, it goes.

275
00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:41,140
So there are events where your
competitors will buy traffic

276
00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:43,580
from locations like Iraq or
Iran.

277
00:15:43,580 --> 00:15:46,500
They're usually bots who click
on your ads and exhaust your

278
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,420
budgets and fill random details
in lead Gen. campaigns.

279
00:15:50,420 --> 00:15:54,700
This traffic, you can't exclude
them in any way due to OFACS or

280
00:15:54,740 --> 00:15:58,100
OFAC.
That is interesting for people.

281
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,460
Yeah, people trying to that's
that's a very bad way of doing

282
00:16:01,460 --> 00:16:02,780
programmatic.
Well like should I call it

283
00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:06,460
blackout and he call him Black
Hat anything bad black

284
00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:10,380
something.
But yeah sounds very dodgy way

285
00:16:10,380 --> 00:16:14,300
of companies doing programmatic.
I really hate to hear things

286
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:17,500
like that.
My whole response to question

287
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:20,140
two saying currently no.
But in the past I have used

288
00:16:20,140 --> 00:16:23,420
DV360 Stack Adapt and Trade
Desk.

289
00:16:23,420 --> 00:16:27,540
So yeah, if you want to get into
the programmatic DV360 stack,

290
00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:30,060
adapt trade desk.
Those have been mentioned

291
00:16:30,260 --> 00:16:32,940
several times.
Tim Halloran responds to

292
00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:35,980
question three about the
challenges and frustrations.

293
00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:39,540
Biggest challenge, Tim goes.
Either it's too easy Kitty

294
00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:43,060
gloves or it's too difficult.
Complex Ui's large learning

295
00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:47,860
curve, easy self-serve, take
away part of its value because

296
00:16:47,860 --> 00:16:51,300
it categorizes and simplifies
when you'd rather have more

297
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:55,680
personalization and insight.
And then we have yeah, de

298
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,280
Gallegos responded to question 3
going up.

299
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,880
I've worked with bigger clients
with budgets available but the

300
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,760
entry point for Smb's might be
tough.

301
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,079
Facebook or Google definitely
make it easier to enter at a

302
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:11,440
lower budget amount.
No, day one trade desk for them

303
00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:13,940
and we have Mark as well
responded to question 3C.

304
00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:16,300
And I'd say the biggest
challenge is the fragmentation

305
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:18,619
of the ecosystem.
It's also our biggest

306
00:17:18,859 --> 00:17:21,980
opportunity as an independent
programmatic trading desk.

307
00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:26,420
Complexity creates a barrier to
entries that we take away for

308
00:17:26,420 --> 00:17:29,940
advertisers and agencies.
So yeah, we have issues with the

309
00:17:29,940 --> 00:17:33,300
publisher.
It has it's an opportunity for

310
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:35,420
you know if you have a small
business you want to start in

311
00:17:35,420 --> 00:17:39,180
the business to make that as an
opportunity as a as a solution

312
00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:42,920
that you have for clients.
We had then have Ashton Clark

313
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,320
going to a responded to question
three saying, yeah, someone

314
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,040
who's never run programmatic
ads.

315
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,840
A challenge would be not knowing
where to start.

316
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,040
I've heard about programmatic
for years, but it seems like a

317
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,320
better fit for large businesses
and not as much for S MB's which

318
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,080
is primarily who we work with.
And then Daniel Voddy responds

319
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,240
saying, yeah, I'd agree here, I
think programmatic sometimes

320
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,760
make it sound more complex than
it actually is.

321
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,950
I don't know if by design or not
and therefore unapproachable,

322
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:14,910
traditionally there was also the
minimum budget barrier, Daniel

323
00:18:14,910 --> 00:18:16,870
goes.
It's like when you go to a club

324
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:19,590
and you see the VIP section.
It seems like a good idea, but

325
00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:22,910
all of them look like they're
miserable and actually want to

326
00:18:22,910 --> 00:18:26,150
party with everyone else.
Programmatic needs to come down

327
00:18:26,550 --> 00:18:29,150
and dance, right?
I love that analogy.

328
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:31,390
So does Ashton.
And he goes, it does seem

329
00:18:31,390 --> 00:18:34,550
intimidating, but we're trying
to be better about testing new

330
00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:37,120
platforms and channels.
And I think programmatic is a

331
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,800
big one to try out.
Today's discussion has

332
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,880
definitely helped make it seem a
little less daunting.

333
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,720
Elling also responds to that to
Ashton going, I would say I can

334
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,480
understand the initial
investment can be daunting.

335
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,200
Programmatic is an excellent
complete compliment to what

336
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,840
you're doing for you Smb's, I've
seen it happen and have

337
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,120
consulted Smb's to get started.
I get it.

338
00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:02,730
Acting goes ice.
Would still love to test it.

339
00:19:02,730 --> 00:19:06,330
We usually default to display or
social if a client wants to test

340
00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:09,370
more awareness focused
campaigns, mainly because of the

341
00:19:09,370 --> 00:19:12,810
assumption that there's a bigger
cost for programmatic like you

342
00:19:12,810 --> 00:19:17,420
said, plus a learning curve on
my end, Ellen goes, I believe in

343
00:19:17,420 --> 00:19:19,900
you it can be done.
The hardest part of the learning

344
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:22,860
journey is simply taking the
first step.

345
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:26,660
I love Ellen's you know, use of
really pointing out her

346
00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:29,460
expertise, our expertise through
this chat.

347
00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:32,180
Yes, the more great answers she
gives her.

348
00:19:32,620 --> 00:19:35,540
Lawrence as well say says to
question twos and I've not used

349
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:38,660
it in what I would like Chile
called programmatic because I

350
00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:40,740
don't think Google Display
network really meets the

351
00:19:40,740 --> 00:19:44,630
definition of programmatic.
Delgar Thomas goes three big

352
00:19:44,670 --> 00:19:47,710
areas for me in terms of the
biggest challenges.

353
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:50,390
This is an answer to question 3
targeting.

354
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:53,790
How do we beat the roughly for
45% average match rate

355
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:57,590
inventory, How do we manage the
cesspool of low quality

356
00:19:57,590 --> 00:20:01,750
inventory positioning?
What makes 1D SP better than

357
00:20:01,790 --> 00:20:04,110
another actor responds to that
saying?

358
00:20:04,110 --> 00:20:07,590
I would say bidding as well,
especially when you are starting

359
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:11,430
to test for different steps of a
funnel and not sure what is the

360
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:13,280
best.
Entry point.

361
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,640
And then, yeah, we then have the
questions from the community

362
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,800
where for question 4, Judy goes,
what questions do you have for

363
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,320
Mark about programmatic
advertising?

364
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,360
And as you'll see, this is not
just questions from Mark, but

365
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,120
also Ellen as well.
I love it.

366
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,200
Yeah.
And she goes, some of you sent

367
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,480
questions ahead of today.
So we'll do as many of them and

368
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,440
we'll try to get to them.
So yeah, what are some of those

369
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,000
questions?
But before that, we've also got,

370
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,950
yeah, Ellen going, her biggest
challenges to answer.

371
00:20:41,950 --> 00:20:45,470
Question three are one, initial
investment, 2 measurement,

372
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:50,110
although much more advanced can
become fragmented 3.

373
00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:53,830
Inventory transparency, mainly
due to lack of transparency from

374
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:57,470
some vendors for fraud or brand
safety risk.

375
00:20:57,470 --> 00:21:00,390
These are the most commonly
discussed stuff.

376
00:21:00,390 --> 00:21:03,150
And yeah, I agree with that.
When she came on the PVC Track

377
00:21:03,150 --> 00:21:06,550
Roundup podcast, where we were
also talking about programmatic,

378
00:21:06,830 --> 00:21:09,830
one of the biggest areas that we
were talking about was the, you

379
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:15,640
know, the risk of an ad showing
against, you know, sites that

380
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,120
are inciting either hate or war
or crimes or that kind of thing

381
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:22,640
or maybe even pornography kind
of stuff.

382
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,800
And have some there not enough
measurements to ensure that your

383
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,480
ads don't show against those
sites or even some like viral

384
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,000
news that comes about comes of
course, you know maybe a death

385
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,410
of a celebrity or maybe Elon
Mask stuff you might not be

386
00:21:36,410 --> 00:21:39,330
wanting to show against some
news that are just not relevant

387
00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:42,690
to what you're doing.
So yeah, all those things in

388
00:21:42,690 --> 00:21:46,050
place to ensure that there's
brand safety and it prevents

389
00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:48,450
risk.
A lot of work needs to be done

390
00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:52,970
in that area in my opinion.
And so yeah, we've also got to

391
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:55,650
John Kagan responded to question
three saying when the clients

392
00:21:55,650 --> 00:21:58,410
asked me for a screenshot of
their ads.

393
00:21:58,410 --> 00:22:01,160
So, yeah, biggest challenges
there.

394
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,440
Me then have Julie going.
Yeah, a question from Tony Zara

395
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,360
for Mark as well as Ellen.
What do you see as the best use

396
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,480
cases for programmatic for
Google advertisers?

397
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,880
Ellen goes, I would add audience
and tactics, targeting,

398
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,640
augmentation, breaking out of
the Google shell to increase

399
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,160
reach and impact.
And yes, it can be measured and

400
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,120
performance can be proven.
That's where additional

401
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,650
measurement tech can be added.
Julie then goes, when you say

402
00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:31,170
additional measurement tech can
be added, do you mean that a

403
00:22:31,170 --> 00:22:36,050
third party tool is something
that is needed to fully measure

404
00:22:36,050 --> 00:22:38,850
programmatic performance?
And if so, what are you using

405
00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:40,850
for this?
Ellen responds to that saying

406
00:22:40,850 --> 00:22:43,970
you can measure programmatic
without third party.

407
00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:47,850
You will need to add them once
you speak of overall view on

408
00:22:47,890 --> 00:22:51,690
performance between multiple
channels, especially you when

409
00:22:51,690 --> 00:22:55,170
you run outside of DSP.
Think showing row or row as

410
00:22:55,170 --> 00:23:01,020
between social set and PRG and
cut goes any recommendation that

411
00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:03,660
any recommended third party
measurement platforms.

412
00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:06,900
Understanding each has its gaps
and advantages.

413
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,860
Ellen goes great question.
I hate to answer by saying this,

414
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:11,620
what are we doing for our
clients?

415
00:23:11,620 --> 00:23:14,220
What's the goal?
Why will this measurement vendor

416
00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:18,420
help us prove for our clients
then understand what types are

417
00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:23,100
available, they are post
verification or versus pre bid

418
00:23:23,180 --> 00:23:25,870
partners.
There are some great ones, some

419
00:23:25,870 --> 00:23:28,590
are specialized by industries,
others have AI support.

420
00:23:28,590 --> 00:23:32,550
Measurement is important because
it helps us show performance.

421
00:23:32,790 --> 00:23:36,030
So how easy is it to read
reporting, post campaigns,

422
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:39,750
things like that.
And then, yeah, Mark also then a

423
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:43,790
response about the best use
cases for programmatic and he

424
00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:47,030
goes, yeah, another strategy is
to augment or optimize GDN

425
00:23:47,030 --> 00:23:50,550
reach, which can have meaningful
impact on results sometimes

426
00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:53,710
finally, which can have
meaningful impact on results

427
00:23:53,710 --> 00:23:56,910
sometimes finally.
And perhaps the most obvious and

428
00:23:56,910 --> 00:23:59,950
familiar thing Google
advertisers can do of course is

429
00:23:59,950 --> 00:24:04,510
retargeting users on a much
larger network than just GDN, he

430
00:24:04,510 --> 00:24:06,830
continues.
Many ways to make a programmatic

431
00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:11,140
work for Google advertisers,
higher value strategies usually

432
00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:14,420
revolve around reach and
awareness or driving tonnage.

433
00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:18,340
Once you've reached a plateau,
harvesting existing demand, you

434
00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:20,900
have to create it.
And that's where programmatic

435
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,740
shines.
And then Julie takes us on to

436
00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:26,540
question six, which I believe is
the last question of the chat

437
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:30,100
saying that, yeah, what are the
biggest differences between the

438
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:33,940
traditional PPC and programmatic
advertising?

439
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:37,530
Mark goes, yeah, in my view, one
bottom of funnel demand

440
00:24:37,530 --> 00:24:42,330
harvesting versus top of funnel
awareness and demand building, 2

441
00:24:42,330 --> 00:24:46,010
diversity of data options, tools
and channels. 3.

442
00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:50,490
Increasing opaque hosted auction
versus transparent real time

443
00:24:50,530 --> 00:24:54,670
auction for tracking.
Where in programmatic, one can

444
00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:58,270
track, post click and post view
activity within a campaign,

445
00:24:58,510 --> 00:25:01,590
which expands and complements
the previously mentioned

446
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:06,110
diversity of data options, tools
and channels.

447
00:25:06,750 --> 00:25:09,990
And Julie also then gives
another question from Tony Zara

448
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:13,670
saying how can smaller
advertisers on board and

449
00:25:13,710 --> 00:25:17,280
activate data.
Judy Mark starts off saying that

450
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,240
there are two main parts to on
board and activate data for

451
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,560
smaller advertisers.
The 1st is almost always to

452
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,640
install and configure a pixel on
the web properties to start

453
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,120
building audiences of web
visitors.

454
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,000
Mark then continues saying the
second path is to upload or

455
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,400
provide a feed of custom
audience emails or mobile

456
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,840
numbers into a platform such as
live ramp for example.

457
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,880
There are costs associated with
the latter, so it wouldn't apply

458
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,960
to tiny advertisers usually.
Julie then continues replies to

459
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,600
that thing.
I will also add this for

460
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,880
uploading customer data and
Smb's, please make sure you have

461
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,680
permission to use customer or
potential customer data in this

462
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,120
way.
Platforms want us to upload with

463
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:05,440
reckless abandon, but we need to
be careful as liability is now

464
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,200
on us.
Slash the advertisers.

465
00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:11,380
Yeah, Julie goes, I'm going to
going to keep beating this Trump

466
00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:14,340
because it is so important.
Get with your legal advisor to

467
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:17,780
review your terms and privacy
policies.

468
00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:20,140
Policies consultants and
agencies.

469
00:26:20,140 --> 00:26:24,300
Review your contract language to
make sure you're not taking on

470
00:26:24,580 --> 00:26:28,260
liability.
Client customer data market

471
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:30,420
price.
Indeed, legislation is already

472
00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:33,780
in place for multiple countries
and states, and it won't stop

473
00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:36,870
anytime soon, Julie goes.
I'm on a mission to make sure

474
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:39,590
businesses and PPC providers
understand this.

475
00:26:39,790 --> 00:26:43,470
The platforms gloss right over
this hugely important and

476
00:26:43,470 --> 00:26:47,150
potentially expensive issue
because they want and need this

477
00:26:47,150 --> 00:26:50,670
data to be given to them by
advertisers.

478
00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:53,460
And Doug goes there.
I struggle with this a lot.

479
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:57,340
So many privacy policies aren't
worth the kilobytes they take

480
00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:59,660
up.
And it absolutely is on us as

481
00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:03,060
the knowledge have us to say,
wait, we need to update the

482
00:27:03,060 --> 00:27:04,900
privacy policy.
But what's?

483
00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:07,740
But that's a whole new set of
conversations.

484
00:27:08,220 --> 00:27:10,900
Not sure of the right path,
Julie goes.

485
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:13,540
Most don't even come close to
what they need.

486
00:27:13,540 --> 00:27:18,180
Now, I am not an attorney, so I
can't get that specific, but I

487
00:27:18,180 --> 00:27:21,820
am absolutely starting the
conversations with the brands I

488
00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:25,060
work with so they can talk with
their legal people.

489
00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:30,570
Sometimes I do too to explain
stuff and actor as well responds

490
00:27:30,570 --> 00:27:33,290
to this saying that what are the
things that we have to keep in

491
00:27:33,290 --> 00:27:37,250
mind while using first party
customer data for targeting and

492
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:41,050
creating custom audiences by
uploading on ad platforms.

493
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:44,210
We do use the state of
advertising by I'm sure it has

494
00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:49,330
restrictions to use it that way.
And I had actor also giving a

495
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:52,650
question well for Mark Walter
Ellen where she went.

496
00:27:52,690 --> 00:27:55,370
If you have to choose platforms
for programmatic, what are the

497
00:27:55,370 --> 00:27:59,780
factors you would consider for
specific types of businesses at

498
00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:03,180
a specific location?
Selling a specific product

499
00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:07,460
assuming that the specific is X
hair and it can change with

500
00:28:07,460 --> 00:28:10,220
different scenarios.
Elling response.

501
00:28:10,220 --> 00:28:12,100
Saying I would add what's the
goal?

502
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:15,820
Look at one what type of Kpi's
are important to client,

503
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:20,740
therefore what the DSP needs to
offer to inventory transparency,

504
00:28:20,740 --> 00:28:24,220
GDN, lack of visibility on where
things are served.

505
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,680
You can see that in PRG 3,
measurement and targeting.

506
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,760
We then have Michael responded
to question 6 as well, seeing

507
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,720
the amount of audience building
and the need to be paying

508
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,160
attention to multivariate
signals that audience is

509
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,040
sending.
Plus it is more like traditional

510
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,560
marketing than digital in that
while you have a specific

511
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,840
audience in mind, you need to go
broad to find it.

512
00:28:49,710 --> 00:28:52,630
And on that very interesting
note, we come to the end of our

513
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:56,310
chat, which is at the point
where I actually joined the chat

514
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:58,910
and realized that it was coming
to an end because of Ken.

515
00:28:59,270 --> 00:29:03,670
As I said, our clocks went back,
one went back, went forward, we

516
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:05,590
apparently had an extra hour in
bed.

517
00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:09,150
But I just, I've just been
feeling so tired since the the

518
00:29:09,150 --> 00:29:11,310
clocks changed.
I don't know seasonal affective

519
00:29:11,310 --> 00:29:13,510
disorder as well.
If anybody really suffers from

520
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:16,190
that, which I do, I feel for
you.

521
00:29:16,190 --> 00:29:20,620
I've already got my Seasonal
Affective Disorder light on.

522
00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:24,780
It's called the Sad Light, which
is a weird name for it, but it

523
00:29:24,780 --> 00:29:28,980
really helps perk up my mood.
Anyway, if you want to continue

524
00:29:28,980 --> 00:29:32,620
this very lovely chat and this
exciting and very knowledgeable

525
00:29:32,620 --> 00:29:36,900
chat about programmatic
advertising and whether as an

526
00:29:36,940 --> 00:29:40,580
SMB if you're a small business
or you have a small business

527
00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:44,060
client, whether you should be
testing it and looking into it,

528
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:49,370
join us on Thursday at what I
believe will be 4:00 PM our

529
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:53,530
time, UK time, 1:00 PM midday,
Eastern Time.

530
00:29:53,530 --> 00:29:58,210
So yeah, during that, so that's
4:00 PM GMT before the the US

531
00:29:58,210 --> 00:30:01,210
switched clocks.
They're going to be changing

532
00:30:01,210 --> 00:30:04,770
their clocks next week.
So from next week will be 5:00

533
00:30:04,770 --> 00:30:08,810
PM GMT as well, but for now it's
going to be 4:00 PM GMT on

534
00:30:08,810 --> 00:30:12,730
Thursday on Twitter Spaces to
continue this chat about

535
00:30:12,730 --> 00:30:15,890
programmatic advertising.
I hope you've taken some great

536
00:30:15,890 --> 00:30:19,970
takeaways from it, but if
there's been any things that I I

537
00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:23,010
miss said, any corrections,
anything you want to add to it,

538
00:30:23,010 --> 00:30:28,450
please get in touch with us on
the the PPC chat handle not

539
00:30:28,450 --> 00:30:32,410
handled hashtag.
Even the PPC chat hashtag or my

540
00:30:32,410 --> 00:30:36,250
DM's are open.
Yeah, you know, well, coming to

541
00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:40,530
it gracefully, respectfully.
I don't tolerate people who just

542
00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:44,780
go high and do nothing.
So please let your your message

543
00:30:44,780 --> 00:30:46,900
come with a bit of context.
I'm very busy.

544
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:49,860
But yeah, it'll be really great
as well for my longstanding and

545
00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:54,100
brand new listeners to give the
podcast a review or racing.

546
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:59,500
Yeah, to do that, just go to
linktr dot EE forward slash PPC

547
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:05,380
chat, under score roundup.
That's linktr dot EE forward

548
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:08,780
slash PPC chat under score
roundup and you'll get all the

549
00:31:08,780 --> 00:31:13,020
links like Spotify and Apple
where you can leave a rating or

550
00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:15,980
review.
And yeah, definitely can't feel

551
00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:20,460
to remember that we've got the
3rd edition of PPC Live UK,

552
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:21,700
which is getting bigger and
better.

553
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:25,930
We've got an amazing headline
sponsor, De Genius Limited.

554
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:29,970
Thank you so much De Genius for
trusting me with this.

555
00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:33,610
They have sponsored every tear,
the silver, Gold and Tottenham

556
00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:35,290
side of things things.
So that means they'll be

557
00:31:35,290 --> 00:31:38,450
recorded, there'll be lots of
food, there'll be some merge,

558
00:31:38,450 --> 00:31:39,810
some swag that I'm going to
give.

559
00:31:39,810 --> 00:31:42,690
I think I'm going to do it in a
competition style way.

560
00:31:42,690 --> 00:31:45,210
So if you're in London, you're
going to be even in the UK and

561
00:31:45,210 --> 00:31:49,050
you can make it down to London
on the 24th of November.

562
00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:52,890
Please join us.
The link to get that ticket will

563
00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:59,690
be BBIT dot LY forward slash PPC
Live UKNOV 22.

564
00:32:00,050 --> 00:32:04,290
And yeah, it'll take you to the
event bright page to buy a

565
00:32:04,290 --> 00:32:09,690
ticket for only £16.00, so we'd
love to have you there finally.

566
00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:12,450
Remember, for your campaigns and
businesses to glide smoothly,

567
00:32:12,450 --> 00:32:15,330
there's a lot of hard work
needed beneath the surface, so

568
00:32:15,530 --> 00:32:17,930
keep your Swans kicking.
Bye and speak to you next week.