EP226 - Competition - How to Analyze It & Thrive in PPC

0:00 Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the PPC chat Roundup in today's episode. We have Julie and taken us on another great topic. This week. We are going to be talking about competition how to analyze it and thrive in PPC. Now of course, I do have to reference PPC live, UK it's of words. So I'm going to start very early right off the bat about how we not too long ago, especially when I did my first talk and ippc live UK and I'm not going to do another one for a while but we talked About the new roles of a paid site manager, and right now more than ever, we need to keep on top of competition, knowing exactly who are competitors are and doing competition, analysis, and audience research and knowing the Crossovers of our audiences and other people, that might not even my something they were mine.

0:49 I even think of as a competitors. So like you know watching TV media, taking in media. Now, YouTube is a competitor of Netflix which is competitor. Of, you know, terrestrial TV. You don't have really thought about that ages ago but it's the lot of that crossover has started happening as the industry continues to mature. So we'll talk about how to manage that, how to notify, how to do the research in terms of who our competitors are and how to thrive in the middle of high competition. All right, let's go. Hello and a warm, welcome to this episode of the PPC chat round up a podcast.

1:36 Way, I round up the Twitter discussion that happens on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. GMT. I'm your host to a new and I'm recording from my studio, huh? Correction not from my studio in London UK this week, to this week, we have another, you know, recording out of home. It's instant Albans this time at my brother's place but yeah I'll be back in London UK next week. It's just an hour out. So yeah when I'm here to not quite That I traveled far. But yeah, I use this platform to share, not just expert but also my ideas and considered best practices about paid media and the direction the digital industry is going in. So if you want to keep up to date with my tips and tricks in the industry, and get the latest on the podcast that has been called your go-to if you don't make it to the PPC chat live discussions and even if you do then like, follow share retweet on that. Try Twitter with my handle the marketing, a new or join us on our LinkedIn LinkedIn Group which is PC chat, Roundup podcast, or if you're on Instagram, check us out on PPC, chat on the score, Round Up to get quotes and Snippets from previous episodes.

2:40 So yeah, we have Judy take notes on another, you know, paid search primed topic talking about competition. In the previous chapter, we talked about how cpc's are rising, meaning more competition, more competitors get into ended into the space especially since covid times. We really ramped up digital activity things. That can happen online online shopping, you know, online access to services, like online call centers, loads of things are online. So loads of more paid search advertising, can be done to direct people to online websites and online products, and online services, and especially with q for being one of the most competitive times, especially for retail companies with things like off the top of my head Halloween. Also, Black Friday, Christmas The big one loads of shopping time.

3:32 So yeah, knowing how to recognize your competition and knowing how to win against them is really important before we get into the questions. As usual, Julie goes, this chat is intended for PPC, Professionals of all levels. If you have something you want to share, please do we are a friendly and supportive Community, please don't be afraid to participate, lurkers and listeners of the podcast are, of course, always welcome to. So, yeah, let's get started. Straight into the questions. Think they're about five questions this time. So get ready for five questions to go through. She starts off with is Anna and allies in the competitive landscape. Something you do for your clients or brand if. So, how often do you do and Analysis and yeah, loads of people interested in that question. Rash goes, if you're not keeping an eye on New or Old competitors, you will lose share of voice and market share. So we are monitoring competitors closely to understand what they are doing.

4:29 Or are you Or you can let P, Max adjust that and is response to that. Pmax only works for e-comm and with a big budget. Yeah, most of the things that Google produces only works for the big-budget Luna response. Yes. Yes. Almost always in the research phase as a precursor to strategy or campaign setup. We use Google's auction insights as well as third-party tools, like semrush for competitive analysis. And is goes competitive. Analysis is something I like to use on the outside on the outside. Set to get the strategy in place when campaigns are running. We sometimes see unexplainable external effects which will trigger new competitive deep dimes deep Dives but we don't do them.

5:12 Systematically Diana. Alina responds. Yes, we analyze the competitive landscape on a regular basis. Online advertising Academy goes, yes, this should be done regularly, usually monthly sometimes quarterly depending on size of account. Steve Gibson goes. Yes, I don't have a lot of Find turnover. So I don't do them often. I don't know. I wouldn't say well, you said you don't do, it doesn't do them often, it doesn't see, he didn't say, he doesn't do them at all, but I want, I'd love to understand what not often is because even having the same clients knowing new clients in the space knowing new people and new things that could be pushing up. Your cpc's is important to keep an eye on Julie. Vitals will also respond saying.

5:56 Yes, all the time, I'm lucky to work with clients who do a lot of of this themselves as well. Julie respond saying, competitive analysis is absolutely something I do both at the start of working with a new client and on a quarterly basis basis as things can change quickly and I want to know before the client brings it up. Absolutely. We have Robert Brady responding saying that yes it's a quarterly or biannually kind of thing unless performance goes wacky and we can't explain it by what we've done in the account itself. We also then have Lawrence Chase responding saying yes Standing, your Market is very important as well as shifts in the market. I feel like in well manager. Managed accounts. This is a big task task at first then becomes something you monitor going forward.

6:42 Watching for new players and shifts Dugout Thomas response and competitive analysis is an ongoing process. You do it in the initial discussions, you do it. When starting a campaign you do it. When performance changes without other reason, John Kagan. Hey John Keegan joining on time. This Time. Thank you, John. I'm going. Yes, we do. Unless there is a specific request. We do a high-level analysis monthly and a granular one. Quarterly, we don't have Julie taken us on to question 2. Going. Are there any tools you like to use when performing competitive analysis for PPC? Yeah, even much more answers to this. Get ready to take down, Twitter handles. Especially I'll try to make sure I'm clear what Twitter handle? I'm giving Greg starts us off saying. Sizes auction insights visualizer. So there's opt M YZ R.

7:36 So that's optimizes auction inside visualizer and yeah, there's a link to that, which I'll also add to the show notes Gregor's. I'd also mention Google's, add transparency, Google's, add transparency, to see the ad copy and creative they're running. Oh interesting. They have that. I need to keep track of that as well. Another link. I will. She'll do Oh that has now taken me to just Google search and I'm not sure. That a thing I'll test that later and as goes, yeah, I have always been a big fan of semrush so sem Ru sh for competitive analysis, just a quick view and you can see what's up both on organic and paid. My favorite tool for the bigger Trends is Google Trends. So yeah, just Google Google Trends and you get that one. That one's easy, Julie, advice and respond saying semrush is a good tool but I really sucks for regional many of my Finds actually can't show up in its data because it's a country because it's Countrywide.

8:36 That makes it seriously ineffective for Quebec or any region specific program. Ah, yeah, and I'm just goes, yeah. You always need the volume and the, I'd even even them, the paid version out, think someone should be able to get the data for some Regional stuff. That is interesting, Steve Gibson goes, spyfu initially, so, SP y Fu, but after that, doing actual searches In our keywords is in my opinion more informative Russian response saying General Google search spyfu semrush and search of volume reports in the ad platform and yeah in response to Steve Gibson about spyfu Robert Brady goes, do you use VPN to stimulate the location or are you using the ad preview tool?

9:21 And we've got Julie going. I use I searched from so that's I searched from.com literally just go to out another link. I will. I will Give you and that means you can actually indicate the country language device. And if you, if you do the search, I'll show you what the searches will look like for that areas. That's very interesting. I wonder whether how deep dive, you can go into it. It says country language. I don't think we have like cities or states or anything like that but that sounds like a very good tool anyway. We have online advertising account to be going spyfu. Semrush are great for competitive analysis or simply Doing Google searches. If you don't have the budget, we also then have you met Geo. Imagine you responding saying, motor.com is quite an interesting tool to spy on competitor display creative. Interesting, moat.com so Mo att.com. And so next, we go to Sophie.

10:20 Logan's answer to question 1 2, dot dot survey, she goes. Yes, and for our SAS clients, it's something I touch on every month that industry. So damn competitive. Oh yeah, working for SAS company. Myself. I know how competitive competitive we are Alex, Nicole response saying, I do them. If I'm looking for areas of opportunity or need some help strategizing, I try not to put too much weight in it though because I don't want to just copy what someone else is doing also. Just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean it's working. Sean any response saying yes, we don't have a set Cadence but usually, at the very least, are looking at auction inside. It changes and cpc's impression share on the regular.

11:03 Then go more in-depth as needed. And we will have Ashton clock as well. Come with a later. Answer to question one, Ashton he goes, yes, we check on auction in sites throughout the month. We also do more in-depth, analysis with formal deliverables, but only every 6 to 12 months roughly. I'd love to do it more frequently though. As of now they just tend to be in response to a rising CPC or other Trend. Yeah, that's how I do it for. A lot of Brands when I was at agency side. Julie their response to question two saying, I'm a bit. I'm a big fan of doing actual searches to see what searches are likely seeing auction in size for Google ads, library for Facebook tools like semrush and spyfu can also fill in gaps Fraser Andrews goes. This is so bad of me, but I always tend to neglect. Actually searching says the Google ads manager because it's built into me to tell clients to not search for their own ads. Julie goes out.

11:59 I want to have a clear picture of what a Searcher is likely to see, so I can see how I add stack up against other choices on the screen, I think. Yeah if you do Incognito Fraser that's why I feel you need to be telling your clients. If they do Incognito such that I believe does not in effect Impressions or maybe it does affect impressions in just doesn't show it as an own Impressions. Uh, that's a confusing one, whether to do a search for yourself or not either side of that one. I think I'd like to do a poll on that. If a competitor analysis, is it wise to do searches? I love discussions, actually, then goes. Yeah, the phrase it goes. Yeah. Well first, the first day is makes complete sense stealing this for next time in terms of having a clear picture of what a Searcher is likely to see. So I can see how our ads stack up against other choices on the screen.

12:48 Julie then continue saying, if you think of it as putting yourself in the searches shoes and presented that way, it can be very powerful. Phrase it goes, love it. I love it, too. I'm Fraser than answers question to Saints by food is always my favorite Julie advice goes most auction insights and the fact Facebook ads Library, plus all the broadcast tools, we have access to online advertising. Academy goes by front, semrush and Shameless plug from Julie, saying we have links on PPC, Chad where you can sign up for tools and a lot of the tools I've been mentioned already and support PPC chat at the same time, so that's official PPC, chat at.com forward slash support people.

13:29 See, chat. So support, hyphen support, support, hyphen PPC, hyphen chat. Yeah, go no official, PPC, chat. And you will see that. It's one of the main links on the navigation bar, right at the top of official, PPC chat, so just check that out. If my rambling good girl, you a bit confused like the response to question one saying, yes, absolutely mandatory. I tried to get the list of competitors. As the first thing, while onboarding new clients on a frequent basis. In the PC platform dashboard. I keep looking at search impression share to get the idea of how competitors are performing Alex. Nicole respond saying, I mostly use semrush for my competitive analysis and Diana Elena responds.

14:14 Most likely Google searches, I think I've said that Judy to goes gives another answer to question 2 saying another old school method I love is to sign up for competitor emails, and set up some kind of alert on their Brand Products, Etc, can be Google alerts, or in other Programs to keep track of spikes in interest or chatter about competitors, or even like, yeah, when they start announcing things, you know, make sure you don't use your email address that, that is clear that you are your competitor, maybe use a personal email address, but I think they'll be good for Brands to do Julie, then the response and you can set up a Gmail email for this purpose for, you're not using your PPC email exactly. Learn skills.

14:55 I do this a lot. So yeah, start signing up for a competitor email. Alerts saying I do this a lot. I have an email. I used that is literally just for competitions email campaigns. This is low-key huge team that sounds like an oxymoron. Loki, huge. I think that's just massively huge. So if you're looking go seen, how some of our competitors handling, their leads has been so insightful, for our clients, Julie. Advise, Google alerts on competitors is gold. Gordon Campbell goes years ago. Samurais had an amazing tool for this but they discounted it. It even, you could basically type in any business name and it will spit out all the email sends big email sense, yikes. Yeah, that doesn't sound like a thing that I might in that broke a lot of GDP are rules which is probably why they discontinued it, learns Chase response.

15:47 Each platform has a way to see other advertiser's creative. I usually use those to see what they are doing auction. Insights is helpful spyfu has been helpful with accounts. Optimizer does have a An option inside visualizer which PPC, Greg just linked. Also, we hadn't have John cake and responding to question 2 saying we try and use auction insights the most, but we supplement it with a mix of spyfu semrush and similar web and that's the handle similar. Web, we had then have Ashton clock responded, question to saying in each platform auction insights and add transparency features, like going to their social page and reviewing what ads are running outside of that. Mainly use semrush not sure if this is a tool, but simply searching our keywords or reviewing the serps is helpful to.

16:38 Yeah, a lot of people have mentioned that as well, and here's an answer that I love from ector. She goes, yes, I use so many tools for competitors research real reference to the tools list and she did give one from either last week or two weeks ago as chat and she goes semrush, spyfu, spark Toro. Cor oh yes @g to at Kappa Terre crunchbase Google News. Google Alerts of course similar web product hunt meet Apollo meta, add Library Reddit groups Zoom info. I'll I'll learn ink.

17:20 Fowler ink, 20 wle are Inc. Those are all handles that I gave apart from Google Alerts meta ads library and read each group all of those. We're a lot, Twitter handles. And yeah, many more. She uses a lot of tools which I think is useful to be in this this industry, this was not quite a question, an answer to a question. But Robert. Brady puts poses a very interesting vote are going. Does anyone else have the situation where a client's list of competitors is entirely different than auction insights or other tools? And yes this is what I was saying at the very beginning, what you think your competitors are my know, I should be where your competitors are. Because competitors are the people in the same field of the keywords that your your clients are bidding on. So there are two list of competitors that you definitely should have a my Legos.

18:11 Yes. And I chalk it up to those other companies not understanding Google ads or match types, especially in local areas. Yes, it could be that as well. It's not who offers the same service, its who's your competition in the auction? Apparently? Yeah. Perfectly Julie responds saying yes, often the competitors. Our brand thinks They have are not the same as who they are actually competing with in the digital space and they don't often ever even think there might be a difference in what is happening in the digital space. Learns Chase goes, yes, you and Julie advice already said it but it can be very different digitally versus traditionally. And sometimes oddly, a lot of times brands have no idea who a lot of their competition are Delirious goes.

18:56 Yes, it's partially due to the nature of the industry. A digital competitors as opposed to Industry competitors. Choose a good brand name. Folks, stop using just generic terms without a vowel for your down, dumpster, hot dog. So me going PBC live UK is that bad brand name? Julie Voice? I feel bad, Ashton clock goes, yes, we see this all the time and whenever it happens I make sure to discuss it on the next call so that they get those insights and can determine next steps from their joint big Tangles frequently. Always the, this is who I we identify as our competitors versus this is who is actually competing with you. Yeah, some goes sometimes other times. It's a result of very stupid competition. I have an orthopedic client that constantly sees competition from dentists strange because they've never bothered to exclude non relevant terms and because Google things Orthopedics are the same thing thing as Orthodontics, Orthopedics and orthodontist.

19:59 Eggs are not the same Diana goes. Yes, it happens to me as well. Catherine, Romero goes in my work with Brands. There are brand competitors. The listed provide them, there are sub competitors. Those are often two very different lists, Damon respond saying, yes, see it all the time as well. Sometimes it's niche players in big spaces, sometimes it's auction, insights, just being weird. And a lot of times, they just don't, truly know the full breadth of their competitors on a given term. So, yes. Predators can be brand competitors, or search term competitors. That's is what really mainly leads to driving cpc's up and then we have Sean, Elliott getting back onto the here.

20:41 Answer to the question. Shown any response to question to sing semrush auction inside ad preview tool can be helpful if you are running ads in different Gio's and Angela takes us on to question three going, are there areas that you find matter, matter more now than in years? Past are there areas that you find? Matter more now than in years past. If so what areas tend to be most impactful in competitive reporting and then, yeah, Daniel body responds examples of what competitors are doing in Social, has become more prevalent. Sometimes it's hard to tell our clients, we need better ads. Compare and contrast is really visually strong and he continues at. Also add, when looking at paid social, we also look a lot more now at their organic socials as well. A lot of Times clients will think it's all about paid but they have to engage a lot more than just with ads. So we compare what they do to competitors Rush response other than copy offers and targeting.

21:42 I look at user experience and the way competitors are monetizing traffic, very interesting and some of them are very clever, Steve Gibson response know. It still offers copy and funnels and is response. Yeah, the mega Trends have become more important, you know pandemics War climate. Jax likes. Whoa, when you live in a volatile uncertain, complex and ambiguous world, you have to look at the bigger picture actor goes. Yeah, then you have so many factors influencing outside the advertising platform to consider. Sometimes it goes in the opposite ways as well. If you have ever experienced competitors, click frauds attacks, or your competitors using different tactics to sustain and is good.

22:27 Oh absolutely. I'm expecting a lot of Allah. Of that in the future. As the platform's grow more opaque fraud is likely to flourish, unfortunately, I took us. Yeah, you can use various tools like click guard or block IPS, but you will still get so many irrelevant data in lead generation. Simply especially from countries, you can't exclude on ad platforms and then we have Julia voice responding to question three saying. This is pretty me specific but election transparency ads are add life in the public sector. So fraught So very, very fraught at a response. Gives another answer to question 2 saying, you want to see the full funnel competitors marketing plan, feel free to try this hack, I have a burner email, use it, use it to sign up to their newsletters. You can use it to see all the different messaging and audience segments.

23:16 I'm not sure how you see the segments if you continue since you have visited your competitors website, they will Target you on their website and you can see their ads, say the ad, if you see it on the socials or click few times so that you can go in there top retarget. Next from there. You can monitor everything that you want. Sometimes you can use some tools to extract some interesting data, interesting word, all those tools. Yeah. Lawrence Chase response saying sorry Greg had me down the rabbit hole with that link. I think it has been same overall for me we have we wanted to see if brands are pushing harder their offers copy imagery. New players in the market. New products, Julie, response in comparing. Messaging is so important today, and it always has been but saturation and Petition are much higher these days you have to assume potential customer will see ads and landing pages for at least one competitor.

24:08 You need to be better more compelling and then we've then got Alex. Nicole responding to question 3 saying, not really, to be honest, despite how much PPC has changed since. I started my competitive analysis has remained pretty much the same. Still looking at things like potential keywords and add messaging Ashton clock response to question 3 saying it. Share or position above rating auction. Insights is usually an impactful one for clients. Seen that a competitor is showing more often or higher than us likes a bit of a fire to make adjustments. Test new strategies ad budgets Etc. And then we have a vector responding to question 3, seen, if you're asking for specifically PPC, I check for main metrics topic and interest 12 vacation 3 by intent of their keywords for Or offer and messaging versus the location.

25:02 If you're working with different locations for the same brand, Julie goes in response to and as way said, yeah, the mega Trends have become more important. You know, pandemics will climate when you live in a volatile uncertain complex world. You have to look the look at the bigger picture Julie goes. This is a great point. You need to weave the macro into your competitive analysis, I think is another answer, the question 3. Seen others have mentioned this to but looking at messaging or creative on social is a big one as well. That said I try not to focus as much on that because I don't want to just do what everyone else is doing and then we have meet Cabaret, respondents question threes and looking at what creative looks like on Facebook, side of things has become increasingly increasingly important. Some brands are doing some really cool stuff. Also looking at messaging ad, copy and landing page language delivers goes, yes I work with an appliance retailer and while Amazon doesn't actually sell major appliances. Yeah.

25:59 Yet there in my auction. Oh yeah, the live long, the livelong day, oh, they're ill there in my auction, all the live long day and my Curious, our client is not McDonald's. So by definition competitive, and then I'm going to give Julie's question for and question 5 because I think they go well together. And yeah, Twitter tweet deck has been annoying in terms of showing the questions in order. Anyway, so question for goes, do you provide PPC services for a highly competitive industry? Fuel Industries. If so what is your biggest challenge, competitively? And then to question, five sheets goes if you are doing PPC, for more Niche or less competitive, or less established industry. What are your biggest challenges competitively to question for? Ya Rush answers?

26:47 Yes, I do. Finance is one of the most competitive Industries with insane, CPC. The biggest challenge is the spike in average. CPC finding a middle. Ground keeps me on my toes all the time, learning skills. Finances, super competitive year, especially like an insurance life insurance. I've seen CPC has been like 20 pounds, ridiculous finances. Super competitive, big budgets, and Deep Pockets for the biggest players. Definitely not for the weak-hearted LOL or she goes. Oh yeah. Lawrence three-digit. Cpc's is normal and a couple hundred thousand spent per day is not abnormal three-digit cpcs. Wow. Lawrence goes, if you work for finance or legal, no other PPC account, seems more Expensive anymore.

27:31 Delivers Goes Pro tip local plumbers. You will Swoon at the cost of these clicks, truly you'll get the vapors. Robert goes Professional Services, like HVAC are insane. To Julie goes. I had a client in that space years ago in the cpc's went on real. I can only imagine what they are now they've really goes goes right? But getting the one class action mesothelioma list mesothelioma, that sounds like a health condition. That's a Whole thing. So really interesting. Answers there. What are some more answers to question for Daniel body goes? I think every industry we're going to be honest competitive to be honest. If there isn't competition you got a deal likely with low search volume and awareness the really high competition you're dealing with more with increasing cpcs while having less Insight with less levers and then Julia voice response to question for saying yes I work with an appliance retailer and while Amazon doesn't actually sell Appliances yet, they're in my auction, all the live long day and my Q Sr client is not McDonald's. So by definition competitive, John can you respond saying, yes?

28:41 But the onslaught of competition is very seasonal example, flu season for hospital hospital networks, Medicare for insurance accounting for tax season, yeesh device response. Question 5 as well as in also, yet my public sector or utility clients are very Niche and have specific. Needs in terms of communication ever flight, or for search or volume against conspiracy theorist, they have all the time in the world to question. Five, John Keegan goes accepting the obscene inflation. We've seen from the engines on CPCC since April. Like there's literally no logical reason for our brand cpc's to be increasing, three times when there is actually no competition, Julie then goes on to question fighting. Even if your industry isn't highly competitive you'll see people He's a likely Rising, which kind of defies logic. What automation is pushing cpc's higher. Don't see Trend stopping being judicious about what you're targeting.

29:40 Becomes more important research. Helps eliminate lines then goes on to question for saying, Lawrence answers. Question for even saying, oh, yeah, big time budgets. And offers can be pretty competitive. We have all seen big retailers like Amazon and Walmart to sell for less and take the loss to gain market, share, also, their advertising. Spends are massive. So, yeah, competitive spaces with companies that do not care about profit, that's always tough actor goes, yes. I do rise in CPC and CPL concerns. But I work with highly volatile Industries those which are not usually freely allowed on the ad platforms here. The main competitors concern is they have heck a lot of money to spend and do everything to defame your brand to defame?

30:26 What are people doing? Steve Gibson response? Yes. The Biggest challenge is having a client to a are simply being outbid by competitors and be don't have the willingness to address the reasons why. And then actor response to question five saying, the main concern with this is that you have to scratch the ground, burn your money and resources to figure out what works. Yes, that she's got a right on the money. I feel like to really really is getting this paid search thing. Huge, I'd love her to give a talk anyway. Less competition means opportunity as well as unknown risks. You get to find the best. And tackle the worst to get the maximum profits and they've Gallegos response. I second Rising cpc's being exported exporting Walled Garden audiences, to other platforms, to remarket, to bring the overall CPAs down button, and then Ashton clock response to question.

31:17 Five saying, other than higher, cbc's close variant matching is challenging. It's not necessarily because auctions are more competitive, but it seems like a lot more competitor queries are matching too. Keywords, including branded terms have to be very on top of our negatives. And with that last answer, there we have come to the end of this chat and, yes, I'm really a great insights about competition. Great tools, shed. And we are just like, you know, if you has a with for those working in finance with Finance Brands Finance clients or accounting client? Anyone? Yeah, anyway Finance. Good luck with those students ridiculous cpcs.

31:58 But yeah, I hope you I've taken some great takeaways from that chart and the hope you'll join us for Thursday's to to the spaces. Again, we're back to Thursday's for Twitter spaces. You can continue the chat on there, if you'd like to leave any feedback about the podcast, or even some corrections, or anything that has been shared, do get in. Touch with me, on my Twitter, DM's are slightly open. I started getting added to random group chats about people trying to offer me, you know, Amazon side hustles and I'm like, okay, I need to stop that. So asked me. Open up my DMs to you. If it's a, if it's a worthwhile query about anything. I've said on this, I will be happy to hear from you. We also do have a PVC chat around up group on LinkedIn.

32:41 So if you'd like to join us on there, too, we'd love to hear your thoughts will also be great for long-standing members and brand new listeners to give the podcast original reviewed, really helps for the growth strategy. And yeah you can do it on Spotify apple or Spotify. You can just you know leave a rating 4 out of 5 father after 5:00 we'd like And so just go under that will be much appreciated and also got a plug. The PVC live UK that has happened on it happening on the 24th of November is at The Shard. Again, it was such a brilliant turnout, last time we've got another brilliant full speakers, pettier, Carolina, Torres, Russell my Kathy, Nicholas Huber. So yeah, some great talks there.

33:26 Two of them are CEOs of companies, Russell has Giving me inside the, he's going to be talking about lifetime value and how you can Implement that in your ego organization, and figure out what, like, the important lifetime value metrics for your clients. Anyway, finally remember for your campaigns and businesses to Glide smoothly, there's a lot of hard work needed beneath the surface. So keep your songs kicking by and speak to you next week.