EP222 - Taking the Frenzy out of PPC

0:00 Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the PPC chat Roundup. And today's episode, we have Julie taken inspiration from an article that Kirk Williams wrote and had published on search engine land and it's called it's time to D frenzy PPC. And he gave seven situations of why people have like a bit of a frenzied time or, you know, Panic time or firefighting time in paid search, companies had said. Mostly happens in paid search agencies because, you know, trying to deal with client requests. All with paid search crew, dancers trying to deal with frenzied client requests and when when the outcome is not matching expectations.

0:44 So yeah, we talked about how to set boundaries how to make sure that, you know, you're looking after yourself, you're separating work from home and, you know, the tips to help to do with that. So I do hope you find this very useful. All right, sit back and enjoy. Hello and a warm. Welcome to this episode of the PPC, Chad Roundup of podcasts. Where I round up the Twitter discussion. That happens on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. GMT. I'm your host, a new, and I'm recording from my studio here in London UK. And I use this platform to share, not just expert but also my ideas and considered best practices about paid media and the direction the digital industry. Is going in.

1:32 So if you want to keep up to date with my tips and tricks in the industry, and get the latest on the podcast that has been called your go-to. If you don't make it to the PPC chat live discussion. It's an even if you do then, like follow Shen retweet on, that's right. Twitter with my handle the marketing, a new or join us on our LinkedIn Group, which is the PPC chat Roundup podcast, or if you're on Instagram wedding, too, you check us out at PPC, chat on the score, Round Up to get quotes and Snippets from our previous, Episodes. So as I said earlier on, we are going to be talking about taking the frenzy out of PPC, based on article Kirk Williams wrote earlier on. And I'll start go straight in with our PSA from Jilly saying.

2:15 Before we get into the questions, this chat is intended for PPC, Professionals of all levels. If you have something you want to share, please do we are a friendly and supportive Community, please don't be afraid to participate. Lurkers are of course always welcome to So yeah, we will also have like loads of people that join the chat. Fraser Andrews, Diana as well. And Julia voice, clenched monthly as well. And Steve Gibson as well. Joins us. I think Duane Brown also gave some on answers and for McGary joins us as well. Actor, who joined for the first time I believe last week and joins us again Boris. Becker Eric joins us as well. And I've got to put a really funny, Alec anecdote, because Fraser Andrews put in that.

2:58 He's, this is me joining PBC. Today, I knew it was an image of, what's her name? Mrs. Doubtfire, you know, where whoever, which is got cream on her face because what's his name? Robin Williams is pretending to be his maid up Sister. Anyway, so, that was funny and I was like, does that mean you're having a facial and do yours wanted to do? I need one Anna, and yeah, and I just hit with that one with. Well, that was a funny one. I'm sure that was no love lost. Back as Fraser is awesome. And yeah, dude, it was unwell and tired. They had an annual big gathering at their house with 80-plus people. Wow, it's not just family or friends as well. That's a lot of people.

3:42 I was the first time since taken two years off for covid-19, interesting, that must have been quite draining even as an extrovert at find that quite draining anyway, let us get into questions. So yeah, Gilly goes, let's get to it. Cocks post talked about how many agencies and programs. Is operate at frenzy speed. So one do you or your team? Find yourself working nights weekends Etc regularly. If so why. And if not why not? Yeah, I'm it's a prickly one for me because yeah, with my job that is my 95 30 job with Marin it's, you know, my day job. I stick to normal hours.

4:23 But yeah, I am not recording this between nine and five thirty. It's actually about 10:00 to 10:00 at night, so yeah. And I'm working on podcasts, or when I'm twerking on PPC, live, you know, promoting our event, especially as it's coming up in just over two weeks. Yeah. Lots to do that. Cannot be fit in during daylight hours. So yeah, lots to do here, we have several answers of this one as well. Quillin's respond saying I'm surprised and encouraged by the replies. I wonder if that's because the industry is actually changing. Okay, so let's go to some of the replies that he's About and Steve Gibson goes quite often, but that's because I choose one to divide my work, welcome week over 6 or 7 days rather than 52.

5:10 I often choose to go out during the day in which case I'll finish work later three. I sometimes work with companies in America I thought Steve Gibson was actually based in them. The u.s. interesting he's not cut continues. Definitely self-defined Choice hair as important as a role. I think the principle is more. Do we actually Have time of check him out of work for other stuff rather than does that this aligned with modern understanding of a traditional weekend and some more encouraging answers. Derek Mullins respond saying, no, to be honest, never even work in an account based on a television network, everything was planned out well in advanced and room and Gary goes, 925 is an outdated concept, unfocus time, Focus over time. So I prepare prefer to work when focus is at Peak. You can't say, A results-driven and then ask everyone to pretend they're on an assembly line.

6:05 Making cards for Ford. The tricky part is not overworking which is easy to do. The job is to create value and solve problems. If you succeed, then clock off the biggest mistake I've made in my career is operating as if running my phone on, 1% battery was okay. It's not. Burnout is worse. Yeah, you just made, if it makes you feel very bad about it. So, glad to see that your device's burnout takes longer to recover. A from than we think. Yeah, burnout is for reals. Definitely delivers goes, I feel like that's been my theme music lately. I'm okay season of change still recovering, it will get better fam. If you find yourself singing my song you might need to step back.

6:46 Faisal goes, oh my God. Yes, there's not set times on recovering from these things for some people but not can be eased with the weekend off for others cough. Cough, cough me cough. It can take years and laser therapy. Just focus on you. I know that you're just a human. Also hair. If anyone wants to chat all bless you Fraser and we have Diana Elena responding to question one scene. Of course there are times when I can't help but check the performance of some campaigns during weekends but because of pure curiosity and pleasure in seeing metrics going up. Hopefully. Yeah. But then if you see the metrics going down, what does that do for your mental health, over the weekend?

7:27 I do not advise that any when Diana continues there. Some days when I was I work overtime, but not during nights or weekends in order to have a healthy mind and operate. Well, on the accounts I prefer to establish a good work-life balance. Go go my response. Do I work weekends? Yes, sometimes but I truly enjoy it so I don't count that as a loss. Our employees are not expected to but since we have a totally flexible work schedule, sometimes they work weekends to catch up if they took a week you know, underscore PPC, which is Luna, you respond saying, I do personally offer Working nights and weekends, but that's mostly because of extracurriculars. I'm involved in one thing I love about Gator works is a healthy work-life balance, working late, late is actively discouraged.

8:13 Yes, love that from Luna. And then we have Julia voice responded question once a not anymore, but we did have this problem last year and in a big way. But yeah, before overall, what helped was communication, Boris response, almost never, and if I do, there's usually a very good reason for it. Example and unexpected emergency or website relaunch had a couple of those this year already. Lee Ike's Fraser goes, where they the classic website relaunch has with one day's notice. Please say, no words. Wish I could big Airline. Oh, to be working with Pros. Once honestly. Don't do verdict lunches, and give people only one day. Notice, so, every response to question one saying, no, not regularly, although I check emails through the evenings and at weekends. So would jump on the laptop if something urgent popped. Up for me.

9:02 It's the importance of making sure that my workload is manageable is always ad hoc projects or issues though, but that shouldn't be the norm in my opinion. And then we have Julie herself, responding to question one saying and emphatic. No, I do not work nights weekends, holidays on vacation, Etc. Only Exception is a true emergency which we will discuss later in the chat. Boundaries are so important, especially when you live and work in the same space. Loading that the truth is shown response. Same disconnecting during non-working hours. Works like a boost to me having time during the day when you're disconnected from work, helps you recharge and come back the next day, ready to give it your all and then we have shown Ellie responding to question. One saying, we sometimes choose to take a day off midweek and finish up on a Sunday, but Six-Day weeks. Almost never happen.

9:55 Same with nights flexible, but not at all necessary. And then we have Fraser Andrew Responding saying, fortunately, not very lucky to work somewhere where boundaries are encouraged after having a dreadful experience in my first agency, where bullying was the norm I had to retrain my brain to help agencies should be. My mission is to never replicate that for any Juniors, bullying being the norm name and shame Fraser name and shame that annoys me. So if you're looking responds, never feeling like you can leave the office on time or have to work at weekends to prove. Your worth is the worst proven, your worth is spot-on, while it's okay for people to get invested in work.

10:38 It's equally as okay to do the norm phrase, a response, Julia voice response. That's a very interesting important approach set, expectations for clients for your team. It doesn't have to be this way. It just often, is Fraser goes, yes, it's totally fine to say. I'll pick this up tomorrow and if they have any issues, send them my way and I'll have stun words, Julie response. St. For recognizing that and not wanting to perpetuate with those Junior to you. Your work habits, definitely influence those below. You on the org chart Fraser goes, thank you. Taking a lot of wonderful people to help me, but I think that I've been shown, it's okay to just say I can't do this work.

11:20 Can someone else take it on for is good so much? Yes. No, WhatsApp or slack on the weekends or out of hours and then we have dug our Thomas responded to question. One saying the first six months to To a year of any job agency job. I've had since my first was 10 to 14, hour days every day, Lord, even weekends. No doubt it. I really hope not that's less to do with the accounts and more to do with picking up the pieces of wherever you are replacing. Yeah. Bad hand over in its lead to this. Sometimes. No Handover notes. Kirk Williams goes. Yeah, that's Bonkers Bonkers because it has astonishes me that people put up with that. Not because I disbelieve you, I'm just going to say You consistently put in 10 to 14, hour days for 6. To 12 months, building.

12:05 Somebody else's business. You better be getting Equity. Yep, for example, is my wonderful manager who isn't on Twitter, unfortunately said something that stuck with me. It's a team effort. So any hand over or work that needs picking up, whilst it may be allocated to you gets done by the team. I'd be flagging with the team. Grants immensely response. Same sad. But I don't doubt the truth that you of what you said, Doug, Doug responds. I mean Saturday. Agree. But it's also a function of where I was in my career. I was an icy in a new management role in a very small multifunctional teams. Some of those ladies days were doing analytics, words, what others were fixing codes? Others were documenting procedures and in response to Andrew, McGarry, where he had gone, 95 is an outdated concept, concept on Focus over time.

12:54 So, I prefer to work when focus is at Peak and you can't say your results driven and then asked I will ask everyone to pretend they're on an assembly line making cars for Ford GT goes. I think as long as it is a healthy choice for you, then it is fine. But if the expectation is your are available, instantly, 24/7 365. Then that is when it becomes problematic and then Dylan online. Yeah, gives another whirring answer goes. Yep. Work nights all the time. Usually Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays and some weekends reasons. If I don't then I don't get everything. I need in two in a week. I also just like the work that I'm doing after hours and carry and care about trying to improve their accounts I work on.

13:41 Also, just want to point out my after-hours work is for stuff. I enjoy doing that also doesn't revolve around communication or taking on emergencies strictly for ensuring I'm working on the stuff. I like while no one bothers me. Yeah, I think the whole too many meetings during the day by a fact that so yeah, I show that That's going to be discussed at later questions and we have at corresponding same earlier when I was working on the agency. I felt it that way. I have to be present every time I'm Panic going on. Most of the time. Now, I take direct project, so I see some decreases in Pace, but I think it's cause you have to be present whenever something happens. Plus humans, especially gen Z is constantly getting used to the notification alert, sometimes I feel both are the reasons for working on steroid modes with remote work, environment as Especially in PPC and we have Ashton clock responded.

14:34 Question, one as well. We're still on question 1, 15 minutes in. Yeah, loads of arms is given. And just by the way, a little pause here, only for questions were asked, what we are able to get through because yeah, so many answers so many opinions on these kind of questions were given any back to Ashton. He goes in the first six months of the pandemic. My work from home, balance work from home, life balance was terrible. I was always online trying to help clients any way possible. In an unpredictable time. Even if I wasn't fully billing my hours, it continues. It was totally unsuited on unsustainable though and I've gotten way better attending my day at a set time. No weekends or late nights.

15:14 My mental health is better for it. My work product is still the same quality and clients are still satisfied and I was like, I feel this so hard because yeah, the beginning of put the pandemic, I just be like, well, I just put the TV on from around 6:00 with just keep working. And yeah, brain was not being turned off early enough. Definitely and we have Julia responding to Glenn when he was like, yeah. Wow. Love at the Precision baked into the contract and that's Julia Vice talking about for our public sector clients. We contractually offer them coverage for emergencies, this means defining emergencies and trading. So no one is the key contact every single time and really goes. Yeah, great practice.

15:57 I will add. But put your regular working hours including Time zone in your contracts, makes it easier to Define when a request Falls outside of when you choose to work. And yeah, Julia voice goes so important and we have cut Henninger responding saying hard, no, setting boundaries is extremely important and I'm honestly much more productive. If I put up boundaries, I think we all are really Brett Podolski joins. The chat saying, have I worked at places where late nights and some weekends work was necessary to get everywhere. Everything down, yes but not currently in my current employer has a commitment to mental health and he's really good at maximizing the time. People spend away from their desks and we have yeah during now taking us on to question 2 going. Yeah.

16:45 Do you find that your clients all stakeholders are regularly requesting emergency or urgent help on things? If so what kind of things and how do you handle these requests Derek versus girls? Yes, was I the only one thinking text article Is obvious or all it said was plan ahead and you will not need to work late. I get how on Twitter agency culture matches with entrepreneurial stuff, but as a media buying employ, I have not been asked to, or required to work late Diana response, happily. No, some emergencies that occur are usually related to report on ongoing campaigns. Dave, Gibson goes, no, I don't work with clients. Like that Guild?

17:27 No response. As we've gone upmarket. We found our Giant requires have migrated from hours to weeks, it's a nice place to be an indicative of how most PPC accounts require patients rather than urgencies delivers. Good response to that. It's a good feeling. Love those three month work backs govind response saying client getting less colds, please improve bid or do something. Mostly I recommend them to wait 12 hours and check if the call Flow is. Okay. If not then I do diagnosed kind. Sometimes insist for changing In strategy to maximize CPC in response, Fraser answers said sometimes. But if you're fortunate enough to work with client service teams, this is where I hand. It over to them, to manage, what it what is, and isn't an emergency.

18:16 Yeah, and I have worked with client services team that did not understand what emergency and Non-Emergency was and just keep everything. As an emergency, what is annoying? We have virtually been given a little note here. I'm not quite answering any And she goes, we need to normalize not being always on call Kirk supposed talks about this too. But if there's too much work to get done in 40 hours, you need more people. Not to have your people working 50 plus h regularly act, absolutely because there's a too much work to be done. Doesn't mean each individual should be doing more work. It means the company needs more staff and they are doing well because there's so much work to do so they can afford that much more staff can respond saying. The larger, the agency, the more I noticed this file being committed customers.

19:05 See them set this terrible president and expect every vendor operate, that way Levi's goes there it is and we have to be the party to start the conversation and make it a best practice. I feel if we look inefficient, it's worse for us than looking on responsive flowed responds. Yeah, it's an old dichotomy to set expectations that you're available a specific eight hours a day Day when the work would is don't align with the work hours. You get rid of the idea of 925 or you expect the work waits. For tomorrow, does the company always eat the perceived loss? Is it a loss? And we have shown Ellie responding to question to say, no. I think I have learned the hard way that you have to be upfront about how you work and how you deal with these things. And people seem seem to respected last year. I may have had a different answer and to Kirkwood He had said that that's Bonkers to Doug. Our Thomas is saying, the first six months to a year, he works 10 to 14 hour days and then cargos that's Bonkers because it astonishes me that people put up with that. I'm just going to say it.

20:14 If you consistently put in 10 to 14 hours for 6 to 12 months building, somebody else's business. You better get Equity dugouts goes, 100% there in both cases. I was explicitly told to go home and that it could wait a lot of it, is that I'm a workaholic. Kept in some of the Situation's. It leaves. Someone in the cold or leave a pile of work I'd never catch up on. But yeah. Had that realization cargos. Gotcha. That's part of the underbelly of overworked though and why some businesses appear to have a healthy culture, initially passive-aggressive manipulation to cause feelings of guilt or stress. For not overworking is still an unhealthy culture, long time ago, I worked retail overnight back stock, while pursuing my Stay. So I had other things going on and we'd get to the end of a shift and there was an Unwritten expectation of well, like you could go home or you could be a team player and stay later to finish a team player, aggressiveness, as someone who naturally feels guilty for that stuff likes to see stuff finish Etc.

21:19 I was a sucker for being guilted into staying past my allotted shift and the shift ended, even though we were out early, so I was done. Never mind. I had to catch two hours of sleep before. For class, I hated that. Yeah, glad you got out of that cock. And then we have Curt Hennig corresponded to question, 2. Seen asked all the time. Yes, pre defining. What is it urgent? Or an emergency is key. I respond to question 2 as well. Saying thankfully, I haven't experienced that since joining my current company Marin software. There's a lot of respect for out of office hours. Julie, then that response question to as well saying, I also put in my contract, what standard communication, reply times are including time zone, I Found when you gently tell a client that dropping everything to hop on a call will come with a premium of charge for that time cuts down on that behavior a lot. Yeah, put a charge on it, people stop asking for under mcgarrigle's.

22:16 Put in my contract hundred percent this work with whoever drops to them, and if you get landed with a legacy client from Hell, talk to people about updating processes clients who have bonuses depending on PPC, results can be extremely unreasonable. So unless contract boundaries are set. So I'm Julie Vice answers question to. I think she doesn't mention contract stuff earlier on but she also mentions hair. So our situation most often comes down to launch dates. Creative isn't ready? Landing pages. Aren't live yet client. Changes Direction, but live date is the live date. It's not feasible and can be solved the proof. We solved it last year doesn't mean the same thing should be done every year.

22:57 Gil gonna respond. Same as we've got gone upmarket. We Our clients request have migrated from hours to weeks. It's a nice place to be and indicative of how most PPC accounts require patients rather than urgency delivers goes. It's a good feeling. Love those three month work Banks. Like, yeah, give enough time for some testing to show result and deliver online response to. Nope. No regular emergencies urgent help. There are occasions when I've hopped on a meeting or call after hours, but only if it suits me, if it does come, Come up. I usually don't check my emails or phone for work stuff, so they'll only get a reply at the next day or Monday.

23:38 Ashton clock response saying, yeah, a lot of the one-off requests with fast turnaround times we get off or reports example. Our point of contact is meeting with their CEO, I need some data by end of day. Usually, not a big deal, so we just handle it but that kind of thing can definitely set my day. Back one to two hours, it just shouldn't happen. Often really, I'd say he continued whatever. We set timeline expectations ahead of time. So clients at know that if they want a campaign build or launch, it has to be requested by a certain time. Delivers goes, we are fully in the same boat live. Dashboards definitely help Roja Rohan. Aya response to definitely identify with this good problem to have, but those 1 to 2 hours are forever. Gone, and sometimes work rolls over to the next day endlessly. Yeah.

24:26 Ashton agrees with that Julie response building a couple of hours a week for this kind of thing. NG that way, you can accommodate small requests like pulling a report without having to have a cost or scope discussion. Yeah. And Rohan goes looking high and low. For those couple of hours, and we have Boris Becker. Rick responding saying sometimes, but I've learned to bake this into my contracts. You want emergency assistance or slack. Availability, fine. Let's define emergencies and that's an additional 2 K. Thank you. That usually does the trick, ya put a price tag on it and that does the trick. Using the are Gilligan's. Wanting you on this? Like I am not an employee. I am not sitting and waiting for you to have a thought that you wanted me to see him respond to immediately.

25:11 Regular communication is great, but I plant my time and you only get so much of it. Exactly Boris codes beside their slack EMS teams, Monday Asana blah, blah, blah base camp is another one as well. You can do that. Yeah, this it's endless, it can same actor, response happens. Sometimes, like when there's some new New product launch campaigns or something unpredictable happens. However, I charge all it. I will leave for the coals and discussion. So I kind of balance. What are your thoughts on 100 hour work week? I read that some people do it. Lord 100 Hour Work Week feels harmful Julia by skills. I agree, it's either self-harm or sadism but either way it's unnecessary spent 50 hours automating the other 15, and you'll be more efficient than you were for the next few years, Fraser Coast this no-account could It require 100 hour weeks if you finding yourself ever hitting this then it's time to take a step back and we assess definite no to that Kirk. Can you get response at the phrases? On sector goes.

26:13 Not necessarily One account. I spoke with people who take multiple accounts as solely Consultants, they mentioned it frequently that they're doing 18-hour days. Wow, that's too much and I'm Molly riehl Fowler response to question to say not anymore because I boot set boundaries and my agency partners. Stands. The definition of an emergency in agency days. Those I got interrupted all the time for emergencies. That weren't emergencies including on Christmas Lord. Now I've turned everything off on Christmas and we have dwane brown responded to question 2. Saying often we got requests to upload ads for the weekend on Friday. 4:00 p.m. not only client either multiple clients regularly.

26:54 Last year, I sent each client and email new 3 p.m. a deadline, the day before they want ad. Live after 3 p.m., we can't guarantee it goes live. And then during go to continues, after Facebook, went down last year, and I worked until until 8 p.m. to get ads live. I said, I can't live like this. Each client was fine about the new deadline. No one pushed back. They said it was fair to want a healthy lifestyle, lifestyle all to be successful and QA add time. Yes, people are kind. When you do put boundaries in place, surprisingly enough for is also gives announced question to say, I also feel like Like it's so important to remember that. We're literally all humans here. Nothing is an emergency unless you're literally dying. It's not fair to ever put someone under this pressure. There are Thomas goes yeah, the way I structured things it's really an emergency situation.

27:45 Those scope creep is real, but it was at the agencies that didn't have good processes that things would come up with zero day, turnarounds and amahle response to question 2 as well. Gives another on to question 2, if you're in charge, you have to understand your team isn't going to tell you. Too busy or can't get things done. They're not going to hold the boundaries all the time because you're in a position of power, no matter how often you tell them, just let me know. Yes, they weren't and delivers response saying this was a really tough one for me, I happily work extra to help the team. And in the process, I was setting an example, for others, it was very humbling to realize turning off wasn't abandoning anybody, but was teaching them. Absolutely, some response.

28:29 This is one where I I disagree and I think we as a community need to be better about training Junior people. I'm not saying that this 100% falls on the subordinate team member, it doesn't but it also does not hundred percent on the manager. Trust goes both ways as a manager. My job is to create an environment where anyone can and should feel able to communicate their challenges plus limitations either in public stand ups or private email slack Hall meetings in the office. It's also my responsibility to keep a pulse on. Workload. Yeah, I think as long as you're doing that, that works. Well, he continued saying, but if something is spiking or someone isn't 100% on a given day, any tassel client report will be a lagging indicator.

29:12 This is where it's on the team member to share the challenge. So we can figure out a solution together. Reprioritize bring in more people, Etc, as a junior team member, it is 100% okay. To be overwhelmed, it is 100% okay, to share that. And there are multiple ways to do. So, in order for you to be comfortable and There is never a judgment for doing so, but do not be a passenger in your own life or career, that should be a on a t-shirt. Do not be a passenger in your own life or career Amanda goes. I'm Alia even goes. I agree with what you're saying. As long as when the person does come to their manager, they are heard and listened to you. Otherwise it all shuts down car goes.

29:53 Yeah the complexity of power dynamics and how different people even based on personality and culture approach it. Incredibly tricky and very real and the time goes, I'm not saying it isn't, but if you refuse to communicate via any channel provided to you, it is unrealistic to expect anyone to recognize you a struggle struggling proactively. Obviously it will show up later but then it's too late Malaga. So it's obviously their responsibility to engage I just meant they may not feel comfortable disclosing. Honestly, Sam goes that's not OK. From the team member because it hurts everyone else. This. Oh All, it seems that there are appropriate communication channels available to them and that management is responsive. Plus, in fact, sympathetic to their requests, I'm with Sam on this one.

30:40 Melissa goes managers aren't mind reader's, especially in this remote world. Team members need to speak up especially if managers are asking directly in one-to-one meetings. Yeah, I think that's fair and in response to a Molly where she had gone. If you're in charge you have to understand your team isn't going to tell you their bit too busy or Things done. Oh my God. This it's it is your job to know how much your people can handle and not to overload them. Of course, they are true. Emergencies, but your regular working practice should not be overworking. Your people learn about their productivity and efficiencies, and plan accordingly. So, now that was gotten all those answers from question to, which was so helpful we go to question. 3, Julie goes, do you have any language that you use in your contracts or Communications?

31:30 When a client or stakeholder views, something as an emergency or urgent, when it really is not do specifically to find what you consider to be an emergency situation. And we're goes looking at our tncs, 32 defined terms to cover the main areas. Here's an example of things listed in it for emergency situations, tend to be about something being off brand or impending Revenue, Rose Target miss or free ordered rival pitch gilgal no response. Not really. I feel like we avoid this. Leon by being selective about our prospects. Good clients don't have fake emergencies love it. Filtering out early saves. Everybody filter out early on saves everybody. Absolutely agree.

32:15 Julie response to question 3 saying yes we defined what constitutes as an emergency and I will repeat here that if a client is in constant emergency mode a might not be a great client to keep and be tried that. Try the this will cost extra extra method and see if that cuts that nonsense out. We have Boris and responded to question 3 saying, I have tncs that state turnaround times for different tasks, response, times, Etc. And that anything that has not explicitly been contractually. Agreed on will be billed, separately, and we have a Macabre responding know. I actually never thought of that before, really, I meet you need to add that in your contracts. Your device goes. Yes, we do.

32:56 And we try to keep Communication open when we're doing Public Safety. Chains are responding to sudden news, we know, timelines can be tight, keeping things realistic. Rather than over-promising is an important factor, Julie, there's another answer to question three saying don't create unnecessary emergencies either. Again, Kirk's post talked about timing of taking new initiatives live. Don't do it on a Friday afternoon, put language in your contracts about timings of taking things live and what you require or like doing. Did send out an email to the client saying that we are updating NG while we communicate, especially on Fridays actor response to question 3 saying not yet. But I'll mention this point from now on defining the Urgent situation and the priority of the agency makes more sense. Emily responds as well.

33:46 Saying absolutely, I established from the beginning that I do not work or answer emails on stat holidays or weekends, I teach all my clients to pose their ads if needed, and they know I work, another job I'm up front. About that doing Brown responds? Not directly though we talked about working together for Mutual success and keeping Communication, open as much as possible. I often say in potential client, meetings were not saving lives. Few things in this businesses are an emergency's, seems we're not doing that. Julie response, one of my first bosses in marketing said. No one is going to die if we don't get this out the door today and that stuck with me. Yeah, Malik is one of the very first A tional coffee chats. I was able to have starting my career said that the best advice you could give me was marketing is, never life or death. And I passed that advice on to my students now and we have Ashton responding to question 3 saying, I don't know if it's specifically defined on our contracts but in our proposal and or kickoff calls, we usually get a question like how soon can campaigns launch.

34:53 What's the typical turnaround time? And I make sure to set boundaries and expectations from their yes if they ask. But if they don't answer, Who knows delivers goes? Oh, I love me. Work back schedule. Keep a Gantt chart or simple Excel with days to launch from brief. So helpful Ashton goes definitely had to learn that one the hard way client asking for major ad copy and creative changes the night before launch but sent then we make sure to clearly Define the deadlines and it's been great. And another great point, I'm only gives here saying it's also not enough to Simply have in your contract sales people, or you. If you're freelancing, have to walk through it with them, verbally state, it draw their attention to it in the email cover your butt.

35:38 But Amalia, then they won't work with me. Good say no, to clients, who are adamant about, not respecting you boundaries from day. One is good business for you. And for them, you'll both find someone else. Sean Eddie responds, I do not but have pretty clear timelines and scope of work outlined. Need to look at adding these for the next one. I do love this on. So from Amalia about when doing had said not directly in on to question. Three is though we talked about working together for Mutual success and keeping Communication open as much as possible. And so yeah there's also talking about boundaries dog are Thomas, goes worth. It is critical to most people's morale that you ship when you say you will missing a launch date? Even one, you all said was unreasonable from the start demolished me in agency.

36:26 My money goes totally but I think you can have both. It's about project estimates Plus Balancing that things aren't an emergency, I plan 30 days to do my audit, I need like three total among other things. I'm doing. Maybe so that way I can deliver early and then yeah, delivers goes time is linear and we weren't don't control the laws of physics. There is no missing a launch date. You point out. Can't be met, it's hard. But this must be a firm conversation. I am a league is absolutely by right up front. I understand you want to launch a next date before us, that is not possible or unless you get the Have to meet in the next hour. This is impossible. Their lack of planning. Isn't your emergency? Absolutely that practice your device goes plus. The what campaigns of yours will we put aside to do? This are very important communication tools. I'm Ali them are response which is the one I loved saying. I also advocate for that with bosses, if your boss or manager at the agency is constantly asking you to do more, the best response is great, I can do that. I can get that done for 4 p.m.

37:29 which of these Other four tasks, should I delay? That is a practice. I always had with clients when I worked at agencies. I was like, you want this to be an emergencies, Please be aware that there's several other tasks that you've asked me to do that. We'll get put on the back burner. Julia voice response. Exactly. I integrate them into the conversation and show how the decision affects other projects, especially the project pertaining to them. I mean, coming on to the last question of the chat, Julie asked, do you have any process In place that either add a frenzied atmosphere, or reduce a frenzied atmosphere. Is this something you're going to be thinking about after this chat? I think that's something we'll all be thinking about after this chat and just double-checking, we have good processes in place Gilly response.

38:18 We make sure our team has a good life. Six weeks paid vacation, all expenses, paid Retreat every year total flexibility, flexibility for work or remote so it helps balance. Until do occasional crunch time and then responds to balance out part of PPC. Kirk's article resonated most with me build margin into anticipated busy time for the on expected. Absolutely bill that margin in prepared for it yet. Money enables Freedom, later on Julie goes and different people want different things from their working lives. So being aware of that is really the key. Also, giving yourself and other others permission for their work wants to change it when other as Six of their lives changes.

39:01 Also something to remember and Steve Gibson goes reading the article that led to this topic. It reminded me of the principle that if you live in a world of drama, it's almost always either because you chose that drama or invited it into your life. The drama can come from choosing the wrong clients, or it can come from taking on too many clients or from being someone who repeatedly mrs. Deadlines or working for a bad agency. All these things are choices or yeah designed to work. For the wrong company, choose better. And what I'd like to call to be a special PSA from Amalia Hussein. Listen, PPC, chat your work is never going to love you back. When you leave things will keep moving look, completely different. I hustled my ass off for the team to disappear and vowed. I'd never do that again.

39:50 You don't do your job. Anything beyond that, 40 hours further to that your value as a human being, is not derived by the work that you do. So hustle, if you want And make yourself proud, don't do it because the culture demands it. I also understand that sometimes we have no choice but to stay and, and it's privileged to be able to leave. Yeah, always had that privilege. Thankfully, did it goes on. It's not quite quitting to be this way. Lord, I've heard about the card, quitting will not going to go into that. Whoever whoever started the idea that we should give everything to our jobs, did us all a major, the service you absolutely have the right?

40:30 Just want to have something left in the tank, after your work. It's not quitting. It's living Lawrence girls. Yeah, I hate that term quite quitting. When it just means actually doing the work you get paid for. I say, only hustle, if it makes you happy and brings you Joy. Not because the company asks, you for it, unless they wanted to give you a nice bonus. Then here is that razor, go see this ignore hustle culture, you aren't impressing anyone. In the words of my ever eloquent, kiwi. Grandmother. We're all Shit. We're all just humans that all do. The same things. Focus on what makes you happy. Then it goes. This must be used as a wallpaper on a t-shirt. Loves of this.

41:11 At Atalanta goes, I learned this in a very hard way at a young age, I feel now, I make more rational decisions when it comes to work. Always always have your rational mind on. Thanks for that nice. PSA a male, we all appreciated. It cat goes as well commentary about emergency work once concept of what is Is really an emergency. Largely depends on your context and background. There are few actual marketing, emergencies, except self fabricated or ones, who, and Kirk as well. Goes, one thing I didn't bring out, well, in the article is the need for transition and transitions can be messy. I'm not advocating. Everyone just turn around tomorrow and tell every client with a false emergencies to stuff it.

41:55 This stuff takes time. Stick to the long game and be gracious. Where you can be gracious. Take the chance to begin reminding and shifting and talking through this stuff with your client. They are people too. They don't want it frenzy. They don't want frenzy, either use that agreement to pursue healthy change together, not adversary adversarially even and then yeah, Lawrence response. If you have been doing it you are right, you kind of just shut off. You have already set expectations. So you need to slow it down. Like, if you are driving a big rig, you cannot just go into First gear, from Top Gear delivers goes, this was a big part of our talk to solve the problem last year. It was a Frank discussion about why we couldn't keep working this way.

42:41 And what we and the client would need to change. It was a welcome discussion but took time do then puts a very lovely note here saying. There's also a lot of hustle and grind content out there. In our industry. Let me PPC. Mom, you all for emitted. Don't let that ever make you feel like you're less because that isn't What you want from your work life? Actor response. I'm curious. How do you define work and life separation in your life when everything is online almost and work from home? How do you overcome if you ever get self-doubt or imposter syndrome, due to amount of work? You're doing when it's directly proportional to what to what you earn? Oh Lord haven't we been there. Think we've had a whole discussion about that impostor syndrome Miley comes in saying no actor. I feel like I asked this question myself. Not too long ago.

43:29 My biggest tip is the beginning of the day and end of the day routine like a commute, take a walk. Something that signifies the shift and impostor syndrome is an old friend. Feel free to DM. Yeah, actor goes. Yep. I go to the gym and have a proper routine setup. Also. Thanks for the advice. I learned so much from these discussions. Oh yeah, lovely to have this kind of conversation. Fraser goes generally, something I would recommend everyone is if you can afford, it is to get a therapist shop around for one. You're comfortable with after a while. I can guarantee. You'll feel ten times better. Actor goes, to be honest. I see it as a lifelong stuff. I got in marketing after I dropped from my school's.

44:09 It's been like five years. I'm always thinking what's next in short and long-term goal setting, and what's next? And from we're talking with people working in the industry is more insightful. Ah, I love her dearly goes, dear me been doing it for 23 years love, like the networking is happening. On this Chad's. I'm not sure that was quite appropriate for a part of this conversation, but it's just a good thing to know that we have that hand. If you're listening and you're feeling alone in this freelancing, they are people that you can DM. You can deem myself, DM, Julie, advised gdm, a malady em. Neptune Moon, who's actually leading this chair. We'll all be happy to hear from you and give you some advice. It's all about its way the networking goes and helps everyone involved.

44:59 I've loved it. It's what led to my success so far. Then really herself response to question. Forcing, I plan for random acts of Google or Facebook or whatever to happen. Every year, might not know, this know which month it will hit, but it inevitably does give yourself buffer to deal with it and add to the scope. If it is a major deal to get things in line with changes random acts of Google Emily responds. I was laughter that one as well. Boris. Beck work as well response and I try to maintain a healthy balance. Never work more than what I agreed with my wife and do one or two passion projects on the side. If things get frenzied with clients, you need to have a talk but that usually is very productive.

45:44 Client are people, too. They don't like frenzied ways of working. So, yeah, you did. It goes that chat flew by we had so much to give in terms of advised experiences. You know, and boundaries. We need to set. Don't be a Passenger of your life or career, even though they've been many great tips. That's definitely my favorite. That's the one that has stuck with me since the beginning of the chat. Thank you Sam or digital Sam. I Am forgiving us that one. So if you enjoyed that child I feel this was one of those Julie could not get through all the questions so they'll be probably a lot more to discuss on Thursday on Twitter spaces at either 12 p.m. eastern Time or 5 p.m.

46:26 UK vs T times. So yeah if you want to To join us. For some more discussions about the, you know, getting out of frenzied situations in your paid search World. Join us on there. I hope you've taken, you've found this chat useful and taking some great takeaways, if you want to chat about this topic, some Moore's I said join us on Twitter spaces for any feedback about the podcast, or maybe even some correction on anything that has been shared to get in. Touch with me on Twitter, my DMs are open as well, on the marketing, a new or LinkedIn. We The PVC chat around a group. So yes, please just request to join that and we'd love to have you. It would also be great, all the long standing on brand new listeners of, you know, be listening for more than 30 seconds to give a rating or review. Please just go to link.

47:16 Tree.com /p P c-- chat underscore Roundup, that's link2sd re e.com. /P P. C-- chat underscore round up another plug as well for my event PPC. Live UK for those in the UK to join us to join myself as well as Crystal Carter of Wicks. Chris Ridley of evoluted Veronica, reason, Michelle Moore, Till oh I'm self-employed and Rand fishkin of sparked, heroics, founder of Moz and doing amazing things in the world of audience, research, who will be joining for virtual Q&A session for your tickets for this amazing event on the 22nd floor of the shot. Please go to be it. .L y /p p c-- live UK s EPT 22. So yeah please go get your tickets quickly because at some point we're going to need to cut off sales because we'll need to give all the names to receptionist so. Yeah, you want to get your tickets ASAP. Finally remember for your campaigns and gives business because mothers for your campaigns and businesses to Glide smoothly, Really, there's a lot of hard work needed beneath the surface, so keep your swans kicking by and speak to you next week.