EP221 - Managing PPC in Unsettled Economic times

0:00 Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the PPC chat Roundup in today's episode. We have Julie taken us on a very timely topic. I don't know about you, but at the economic crisis as been top of Mind, top of discussions lately and so we are going to be discussing managing PPC in unsettled Economic Times. So, yeah, I hope you enjoyed. I hope this is useful for you. Especially clients, who might feel like their brand is not Priority item for people to, to be Vine. Might be something that is more secondary or more luxury. So yeah, if you do look after one of those Brands where they're the product seems to be quite luxury, we feel for you with thinking about you, and we're going to be discussing how to get through that today.

0:48 So, I hope you enjoy. Hello and a warm, welcome to this episode of the PPC tap round up a podcast where I round up the Twitter discussion that happens on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. GMT. I'm your host, a new and I'm recording from my studio here in London UK. And I use this platform to share not just expert but also my ideas and considered best practices about paid media and the direction the digital industry is going in. So if you want to keep up to date with my tips and tricks in the industry, and get the latest on the podcast that has been called your go-to if you don't. Get to the PPC chat live discussion. And even if you do then like follow Shen retweet on that, try Twitter with my handle the marketing, a new or join us in our LinkedIn page which is the PPC tab Roundup podcast. Or if you're on Instagram, why don't you check us out at a PPC, chat underscore Round Up.

1:46 To get some quotes and Snippets from previous episodes. So yeah, I love to have this conversation about the economic crisis. PPC is being I'd definitely as well. And so, it does concern me as to whether going to a PPC event is considered a luxury. Think we, I do have PPC, like, UK happening on September the 29th. We've got amazing speakers, like, Crystal Carter of Wicks. Who the S head of SEO of wigs. We've got Chris Ridley, who is like a very beloved member of, the PBC chat community on Twitter and Linkedin and Discord and slack groups. And we've got also a first time speaker lady Veronica talking about data which I love and Rand fishkin who I'm you know, he started headed up, Mars left that he had it up spark Toro and audience research tool which I think is would be very useful for everybody to use.

2:40 I know Tim Halloran one of our. Yeah, our own hair also talked about how he uses it as well to do some audience, research knowing what kind of audience inside, could help to do audience targeting and audience layering for his paid search work. So I think for PPC, Focus would be really great to see how seo seo and PPC work together to really break down that silos that can happen. So anyway, so yeah back to the fact that I hope it's not is considered a luxury purchase. It is only 15 quid for people in the UK. It's going to be happening at the shot. So I do hope that you can make it. So yeah, before Julie goes on to the questions though she does go, how are we doing today?

3:26 We have Sarah Steamin that. Noises. He says, I'm doing great on a Tuesday. That feels like a Monday, because on Monday, they had a holiday Labor Day holiday. So, yeah. Today is there Monday, who else we have? I think with, I saw Dwayne Brown on there. Robert, Brady joins us as well, as well as Julie advice, we have a vector joining as well. Cook Williams joins for a few questions on here as well, and Lawrence Chase, and a few others, I'm sure of just to give you prepare for it, we have five questions that were shared some really great answers when it It's that, you know, many questions because obviously probably just people wanted to give lots of answers for the questions here. So yeah, I'm excited to see what those answers were before. I do get into the questions and our answers. I'm going to read out Judy's PSA, which is saying before we get to questions, this chat is intended for PPC, Professionals of all levels.

4:17 If you have something you want to share, please do we are a friendly and supportive Community, please don't be afraid to participate. Lurkers are of course. Well, always welcome. And that cos and as I like to, but listeners of the podcasts are welcome as well. So yeah, let's get on to the question straight in Julie asks, are you concerned about the economy in general? As we head into q 4? If so, why and what is most concerning and if not, why not Coke Williams goes them? Yeah, I think High credit card, debt, and payment plan adoption shows. People are overextended more than economic spending show. Shows my theory non big promos will struggle for fcm Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

5:04 And then key 120 23 will be when Financial reality strikes for average consumer and revenue will drop more than usual. And Sarah goes already seen. Small promotions as lackluster. Yeah, cargos, I think it's going to force Brands to make a crappy decision. Either do a big promo and really struggle with with profitability or risk. Having an abnormally low Black Friday Cyber Monday. We saw hint of this last year. This is all conjecture. By the way. Hashtag, not an economist Julie goes. People are likely to be much pickier about where they spend their money. This queue for, I believe. So as well, then your body responds to your question one as well, saying I'm not concerned, if it's something that's out of my control, I can't worry about it. You try to work and do your best with what you have in, whatever the environment, Tony's our response and I think the biggest issue is distortions, cars are powered. Up in Lots right now because of the big demand spikes surrounding supply chain and covid actors response as well saying.

6:06 Yes, in the recent times, most of the companies are facing lack of customers and demand of their Solutions which is making that their pipeline dry. Its effects are showing on the cost-cutting in marketing operations and firing teams as you continues. Not only this as a media buyer, I'm concerned that business owners think that PPC can fill their pipeline. They try it, not get good results and like, PPC. And I like PVC don't work. And be like, besito don't work. She finally goes. Also these days. So many new pc marketers are coming in the market, which claims that, they're unable to fulfill and end up degrading the industry standards for other professionals. Yeah, it's a mix.

6:49 It's a mix of, you know, loads of things. The promotional being done worlds, and makes of no more people coming in and using poor excuses and add to this. In kind of areas where we have seen years ago. So I really hope you are not coming. Just using poor excuses, but still actually using the right excuse, all the right reason as to why things are not working because sometimes it might be the market, but sometimes it weren't. So yes. We really need to be careful about that one. Julie response as well saying. Yes, I'm concerned about the economy while we may or may not have officially met. The definition of recession, there are quite a lot of negative forces in They right now expecting some to want to pull back and others to stay the course or increase and then we have serious team and responding to question one time.

7:36 Not because ads still will run and Rose targets will still apply. I also find even in a downtown consumer, still in a downturn consumers still by maybe less now ask me as a shareholder versus a marketer, might answer changes to some concern delivers responds. Yes people are struggling in various ways right now so we may need To Pivot some strategies. And I expect that spends to either contract or get more cautious and then, yeah, we have Julie given another answer to question. One saying I am also expecting the pendulum to start, swinging back to Consultants or outside people versus in-house teams as it does. When the economy weakens exact start asking, why are we paying salaries and benefits when we could just pay for the work? And, yeah, that's a that poses a very interesting Bill person. As to what people are starting to think once want to help people want to invest in the digital advertising. So Cargoes elal literally, just deemed, an agency owner who told me their last client hired them because they couldn't find an in-house person like 10 minutes.

8:45 Go DM, good, good inside. Yeah, until he goes funny story. I ended up starting Neptune moon. When I was an in-house person who got acts in one of these Cycles had been doing freelance on the side and think, In of going solo and figured. Well, I guess today is the day and yeah, he's been motivating Lee doing that doing that for 23 years now. Lawrence girls, I have a couple of clients where they looked for talent and never found it being over two years with the newest one. Now, we are less risk than hiring an internal employee in many ways and less expensive delivers. Go same boat different size, our buying power and ability to pull teams makes us a very interesting partner in Times like this and then yeah Julie was goes.

9:30 There it is. I've been through this cycle probably four times now Julia viscose. These conditions are typically what? Sets it off Julia goes. Yeah if only there was some way we could lessen the boom or bust cycle and stabilize the economy to prevent these kinds of shut up. Ghost of Reagan is interesting and we have a rubber Brady responding to question. One saying, people are spending more on this societies and that impacts discretionary income. Income availability, debt, both consumer, as well as medical students Etc is more prevalent. It may be moving slowly but it's moving steadily in a bad Direction. Learns, Chase responds. Yes, if the special offers I saw over the weekend, where any indication brands are aware of the high competition coming into the season.

10:19 I wonder whether that means I need to put sales on my thing. You know, I'm not its owner already as low as 15 pounds for my event anyway. McKee response to question one saying we have seen clients start to pull back on budgets. They're definitely skittish and yeah we then have Julie taken us on to question 2 going. Are you concerned about the economy relative to the industries? You manage advertising for heading into q 4 if so why and what is more concerning and if not, why not? But before we get into that, I stand clock or spice to response to question one saying in general, yes. And also because of how it impacts our work. Like marketing budgets and or Outsource agencies tend to be the first Cuts whether that's best for business or not.

11:04 I think is a different story, though. Melissa are also response to question to thank you for isn't big for B2B. It usually is the opposite but that said, I'm expecting more clients to want to go completely dark in December. We usually counsel against that but this year we shall see I'd say, stay on brand as ladies. Please have your brand. Keywords live is what I'd advise. You see when I was working in agency. Advise clients to do if they did want to go dark during like hard times during Brown response to question, one saying different being in a recession as an employer. Don't know what, I don't know, not shocked where we are as much as just navigating it all.

11:45 Feels like a slow. Death is happening some days. I feel, I know it will last a couple of years at least delivers response, question to saying yes, my restaurant client is high value but not necessarily the it cost in the game and a current strike action directly related to inflation or cost of living is affecting my public sector clients. It's getting bumpy out there out hair. Even she continues, good thing. I just signed a luxury travel client. Nothing to worry about there. Yeah. Luxury travel, think people are going to be doing more budget than luxury these days. Some response honestly probably not put people who use luxury travel tend to be the kind of people who don't give a damn what The economy is doing because wealth accumulates, that's true. Yeah.

12:31 Delivers goes. Yeah. It's a, yep. It's going to be a top of funnel Challenge and a Competitor Conquest, for sure, Daniel body. I don't know. The people who are likely to actually pay for it. We are likely still pay for it. I mean, you are going to get less browsers and more seriously buyers, right delivers response. I think it's more top of funnel issue. My last luxury, Cruise clients had their best Q forever in 2020. Yes, It was our team being awesome but luxury doesn't pivot the same way in a contraction. Actor response. Wow congratulations. Julia in terms of signing a luxury client. Yeah. Do device. Thanks. It's good news but TimeWise. It feels weird.

13:13 Yeah, because covid is still affecting travel because people are watching pennies are not spending on splurges. It's the general timing of luxury travel during economic and Industry witness. Yeah. What luxury do you think that? Give up and be like, okay no I don't have money for this anymore. So Sarah Steelman responds when you have a brand with a high price tag. It's more worrisome because the item is seen as a luxury versus as a necessity or an investment. Do you respond saying? I always say that all Industries are run by people and people cannot help but bring their feelings about economic health into their decision. So I expect to have a lot of conversations about spend and number of platforms. We are on, so yeah.

13:57 Yeah, Justin goes. We've definitely started to see this as well especially after Q2 ended. We had a lot of requests from clients for one of reports as well as executive of reviews or presentations. That are point of contacts could bring to their higher Ops. Yeah this will be useful. Now we have actor responding to question 2 saying. Yes, with advertising platforms, bringing updates, almost every day. The results are fluctuating in every industry and sometimes it gets hard to forecast, monthly performance. It's Name all the industries but I'm concerned about the cost per acquired customer and quality for B2B lead generation. Robert Brady response to question 2 saying my client portfolio. Is diverse enough that while some will slow down others will stay strong.

14:43 I'll be okay but it will be tough for lots of people. Yes, it'll be up and down for people or not and then we have some responded to question to say and I'm not worried more opportunistic. Any change any time change happens? There's TT and honestly, I'm hopeful that this shake-up helps to recenter paid media around things that matter versus things that go up and to the right Dave, Gallegos response to question. Two saying I expect pull back from optional, health care cosmetics, Etc, learns Chase responds. Yes or no, it puts a lot of pressure on us to do better to win but it will get better. And honestly this is where we earn our paychecks. It's easier to get good results when things are awesome. As well response to that.

15:28 Gives another answer to question 2 saying, we have the added a headache of data for the last two years. Being a hot mess. Yeah. Industries have thrived in Peak covid are cooling in some cases pretty rapidly. While others are coming back. Steadily Ashton clock uses gives his response question to saying, kind of addressed in my first answer to yes because marketing budget seems to be looked at as an AZ area to cut costs. The most concerning part for me. Is that a lot? Feels out of our control. A lot of this feels out of our control. He continues, for example a Company CEO, Sunderland has decided to terminate contracts with all the agencies, no matter the results that are being driven. And without consulting, anyone that actually works on the project Julian continues.

16:15 I think 2023 budgets will be cut in a lot of instances. It is really a question of how much it is cut and if you're lucky enough to work with Biz who see opportunity, when everyone else, Is cutting and within have Julie taken us on to question 3, saying I your clients or stakeholders bring it up, any economic concerns is. So what are they most worried about heading into Q for Daniel body goes, we've had conversations about the economy with each client more about how to plan, not to cut budget, but to allocate it appropriately to achieve the goals and how the business can measure the impact. And then we have some response live responding saying about about Julie's answer saying, she's expecting the pendulum to start swinging back to consultant or outside people versus in-house teams. Some goes this right here is wisdom execs are always looking to D risk during contraction cycles and employees. Believe it or not are almost always considered riskier than Consultants doing Brown response to question 2, saying, if your brand is offering something related to the seven deadly, deadline sins deadline sin, or does it, mean, deadly sins? I can see the Doing well in a recession. People have habits and some won't change during a recession. Would love a pet or candy type client. Yes.

17:36 And by the way, when he said, deadly mentally at, the not deadline, but deadly sins and these are last gluten e, gluttony greed. Sloth wrath, envy and pride and digitized goes fob is not going to cut costs this Cycles. That's for sure. Fob Phu, be what's fob someone enlighten me? And we then have Sarah Steelman responded to question 3 saying yes, we run scenarios for different cut levels for sure. Also, a few clients running summer sales and moving media dollars up to see what happens now versus holding back for cyber and holidays. Doing Brown response to question, 3 saying everyone is bringing it up related to queue for Black Friday. Some asked about next year and we are thinking about it.

18:19 Don't over order and sell out of everything. Cash in the bank. Is everything delivers response where often the ones? Bring it up to them, they know what's up but we're the ones. Connecting the dots to how we manage the investment in media. Then your body responds to question, 3 saying, we've had conversations about the economy, with each client, more about how to plan, not to cut budgets, but to allocate it appropriately to achieve the goals and how the business can measure the impact. Julia herself response. Question 3 saying, I believe in being proactive and broaching. The topic even if they are not bringing it up, I'd rather God The conversation, then have the conversations happening that I'm not a party to that end up with a decision that impacts me or my work some as well response to question.

19:06 Three saying, some are it's an inevitable Topic. In general, most of it is focused on opportunity versus reduction. When competitors start going dark or cutting media. That's the time when cpms drop and ctrs increase, he continued saying that being said, some are modifying strategy plus product mix to lean into higher profit centers. IE focusing on first sale profitability or higher margin Services, which can make plenty of sense, depending on the business, plus the underlying data sound continues. And then there are a handful of clients who are actually increasing budgets and increasing cost per cost. Consumer Target cost per cost. Over consumer Targets in an effort.

19:49 Kak Targets in an effort to pick up incremental new customers at what they project to be a Count relative to their actual value and Melissa McCarthy is well response to question three saying, it's really more of being extra. Sure of the value of what they're spending on search continues to do well because it's intent driven. Other channels are more affected and recruiters response to question three saying, yes, in B2B the key discussion has been retention cross-sell and upsell 's and learn skills during times like this. It's nice to have a stronger B2B portfolio. Yeah. Cuz they want it. Sal nice. And then Julie gives an advanced question.

20:30 Three saying, this is a great time to be keeping a close eye on your auction. Insights to see who is pulling back who is holding steady and who is adding spend, it can be a useful tool to keep your initiatives. A going Lawrence response to question 3 saying we discussed the topic but it is not paralyzing. Any Brands we discuss what opportunities we may have because of it, which is what we should be looking at in B2B. It is really not an issue yet. Except The folks who support Auto and then we have actor responding to question three. Saying, they're concerned about this might not be proactively speaking. I try to introduce this topic in our conversation, usually decision makers like VP or director of marketing. So they do see where their outsourced marketing efforts are, hope are heading towards.

21:19 You didn't takes us on to question for saying, are you seeing impacts in your accounts that you think are due to economic factors? If so, what are you seeing on on? Which platforms Ashton does respond to question. Three first saying that, yes, most clients have been asking for more granular reporting. So they need to know exactly what is or isn't working. We already do this in our usual reporting but we've gotten a lot more questions or requests about specific keywords, Services targeting Etc. Doing then goes on to answer, question forcing totally are especially for one of our women's shoe brands, even seen impact on our Amazon business people will spend less next year. Why? Should they spend it with you Brands? Will start to have to answer that question if they are not already actor goes yup.

22:05 They're limiting. Anything that is not important for them and postponing less priority stuff. Businesses are reconsidering the expense on the marketing efforts that can bring them more value and rowers doing goes as they should across the board. This is a great time to show your value. As a brand actor, goes, do you think organic marketing efforts will work in this? I just got off a call with a client. And he mentioned that although his company has less stuff in the brand awareness side. He wants to slow down on social media, organic and seo seo, don't slow down on SEO, seriously Dwayne Brown bang response Brands who Market Less in a recession come out of a recession worse off, maybe what they were doing with SEO and content marketing was not even working to begin with. Angela gives answers question, forcing the aforementioned auction in sides have been all over the place in Google. At the past few months, cpc's continue to increase not holding my breath for Big Ink decreases.

23:03 Even if auctions on platforms are less crowded. And yeah, when Dwayne said totally, I specially for one of our women's shoe brands, even seen impact on our Amazon businesses people will spend less next year. Why should they spend with you Brands? Will start to have to answer that question if they are not already Julie goes, this is a really important Point, not just why your product or service is something to spend. But to spend on now, and to spend with you Jill advice as well as response to question. Forcing Amazon is in all of my auctions. Even my public sector once they see this contraction as a major opportunity and then learns, Chase response to question for saying absolutely.

23:44 The discretionary income folks have has have has gone down a lot, the recession and the crazy inflation have impacted, the extra money families have for retail items. We have to have the right. The product and to be the right brand for consumers and we have Julie, then responding to that scene, I think would lead times you have to also work to make people want to still want what you're selling. If it is a 10, plus week delay between deciding to purchase and actually getting sad thing, learn skills. Yes, merchandising has their work cut out for them with finding sources for products. Find an item folks need and being able to get them shipped when they want them or was nothing with For granted. And then, yeah, we have question 5, our last question of the chat.

24:33 Seen, are you proactively doing anything in your accounts due to economic conditions or concerns over economic conditions? But before we go into that, we have Sam responded to Julia Vice, where Julie had said, Amazon is in all of my auctions. Even my public sector. Once they see this contraction as a major opportunity, Sam goes, the opportunity tends to come disguised as declines were in Buffett is still right before are for when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful interesting, quote and we have Julie Voice responded to question five saying updating the - to be even broader adding in Collective actions or strike negatives. Renewing a lot of the first party data discussions.

25:16 Yes, renew those discussions, Julie response question facing. I am being even more. Aggressive in trying to do what I still can can to eliminate poor quality traffic. That efficiency doesn't always matter but when things are tighter on the musket or under more scrutiny, but more, you can say, you've done to be proactive the better learn skills reviewing the marketing calendars together just to ensure we were buttoned-up also reviewing products for any inventory Flags or worries as didn't respond saying, making sure conversion tracking is as accurate as possible, so we have the best insights for the results being driven.

25:57 And also reviewing keywords, and structure for opportunities to refine expand or double down on different products or services. And then we've got actor, given a very nice response to Julia. Julia says, I'm being more aggressive and trying to do what I can to. Eliminate poor quality traffic actor goes. I'm using the tool which can cut fraudulent clicks, B2B fintech competitors are fiercely attacking their competitors. With these trying to utilize, our brand keywords is also one of the efforts many companies are still thinking If they should do it and we have Julie responding to that, I believe. Yes. And another point about Brands particularly on Google ads, your brand name is now matching two competitors names.

26:40 So even if they are not targeting your brand, their ads are likely still showing for your brand if they are running their own brand campaigns campaigns, protect your Tufts, even if they're not targeting your brand their ads are likely still showing up for your Brand's. So yeah, I started seeing people showing up Other PPC companies trainer for PPC, live UK. So and making me think, should I put some money behind some PPC? Budgets will see accident responding are interesting. Can we see these in the search term reports on Google? Also there's any way, is there any way to improve search Impressions on the competitors brand keywords without targeting? It it Google is already doing the work of targeting competitors keywords on your on our behalf.

27:23 Yes. You can see this in the search terms tab in Google ads, Julius go. As you can see all terms, but you'll see the competitor ones in there. If you want more traffic on the competitors, you have to Target their names, you'll get some with the fuzzy matching and you get loads of poor quality score on it. So I'm not sure whether you want to do that actor and we have Melissa responded to question. Five cent ensuring conversion tracking is buttoned up including importing Salesforce or other down funnel lead data. We are really encouraging a lot of my our clients to do that. I don't know that very brilliant and practical note. No, I was going to end it with Melissa's answer, but I'm going to end it with Dwayne's answer, even where he responds.

28:08 Question 5 saying shifting ad, spend around focusing on different products to sell. Making sure we stay profitable as we spend money. And I think that really also matches, what Julie says, being as efficient as possible, that you're really going to have to really prove your worth and making sure that you are doing. The most not the most for the most sake but the most to stay efficient and to ensure that you are delivering on that return on ad spend or whatever else the target is so I hope you feel heard. Listen to on, you know, taking some great notes as made you go, okay? I'm doing the right thing or, you know, some thoughts as to what what new things are usually to be thinking about and also even the whole trying to be more efficient. That is Bau stuff as well.

29:00 I think so be calm. If you don't feel that you're doing anything different, just keep staying as efficient. Keep doing what you're doing brilliantly. Yeah, well, you keep doing what you're doing brilliantly and see where you can improve, especially keeping an eye on those competitor X. So, if you want to have more chat about this, or get more advice or talk about, you know, what's going on in terms of PPC and the recession times join us on Thursday at 5:00 p.m. GMT. PST still British summer time or 12:00 p.m. eastern time. So, to join us on with that, to have another chat on Twitter spaces, with Julie leading that for any feedback about the podcast, or maybe even some corrections on anything that has been shared. Do get in.

29:43 Touch with me on Twitter, my DMs are open on my handle, the marketing, a new Under on LinkedIn. Yeah, we've got a PVC chat round of group. Please just request to join. Would love to have you on their. It also be grateful long-standing or brand new listeners to give the poor. Cast a review or rating. Just go to link trader.com /pb. See chat underscore round up so that's link2sd. R ee.com /pb see chat underscore Roundup. And now under a little plug here for a PPC live UK event happening on the 29th at the shop. We've got amazing speakers. Like Crystal Carter, Chris Ridley, who are two names of show, you know, a new speaker on the On the circuit whose I was I'm humbled that she chose my state to be the first to do a speaking gig. I'm sure the second and third will come quickly along but Veronica Remora is joining us to talk about data and how to be truly data-driven whether your client or agency and working together on the other end.

30:46 So yeah, to get tickets for that. Go to be it. .L y /p p c-- live, UK s EPT 2022 and you We'll be able to get your 15 lb ticket, which is really recession-proof. I mean, common to see not just three amazing speakers will. Also Rand fishkin, doing a special Q&A session with us answering all your questions. But yeah, if you go on down there you'll be able to see all that. So yeah, please do join us for that. Finally, remember for your campaigns and businesses to Glide smoothly. There's a lot of hard work needed beneath the surface. So keep your swans kicking by and speak to You next week.