EP353 - When Automation Took Over: How Opteo Rethought PPC

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Hello and welcome to PPC Live,
the podcast.

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I'm your host Annie.
I'm the founder of PPC live and

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if you're used to hearing advice
from PPC experts about how to

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ensure we are keeping up with
the ever changing landscape,

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don't worry, you are still in
the right place.

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Every week I speak to a
different PPC expert or industry

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expert even about the biggest F
UPS they've made and but also

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how they've turned things
around, the learning that

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they've made, the challenges
that they had to turn things

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around to ensure that they're
still experts in their field.

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And now I'm not just speaking to
one individual expert.

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I'm speaking to two experts in
the digital marketing field.

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Two, people from the fantastic
company Opteo, a brand that have

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been a fantastic supporter of PC
Live for a long while.

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And there are people who have
sent their brand, who have sent

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their team to really interact
with the community in a very non

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salesy way, in a way that really
just ensures that they're

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listening first hand on what our
issues are in this industry.

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They listen through all the
talks, they listen through all

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the panel discussions,
especially where people share

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what their biggest issues have
been.

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And they take that away to
ensure that they're building a

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tool that responds to what are
the customers issues and what

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such marketers issues mainly
are.

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So we speak to Adam and Shakira
to hear from their experience of

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how the mistakes that they've
had, especially in the AI

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industry and how they how as a
company, they turn things

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around, the people who are like,
you know, pivotal in those

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changes.
And what were the real

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challenges to make those changes
to ensure that they were keeping

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up with, you know, the AI
revolution that we're very much

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in right now.
So yeah, let's go speak to Adam

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and Shakira.
Hello, Shakira.

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Hello, Adam.
Welcome to PPC Live, the

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podcast.
Hello.

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Hey guys.
So yeah, I've got so much

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delights before having these two
very wonderful people joining

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our podcast.
As I said in the intro, they are

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they've been a long standing
support of PPC Live out of the

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19 events LED especially, we've
got to give a shout out to Ben,

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our our, our fun leader Ben,
who's always bringing the Obtea

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band together for the PBC live
events.

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And so we're so grateful that
Obtea are sponsoring us this

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year and always coming to our
events.

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And yeah, you know, part of part
of like the benefits is being

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able to have this nice chat with
the people who helped to ensure

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this PPC live events come alive
and continue to to go.

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So I'm just so delighted that
there's this opportunity to do

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this.
So a little bit about up to you

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and what they do.
Up to you have been around for

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over 10 years originally as a
Google Ads optimization tool.

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They've now launched, just
launched like an early access to

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a big new version of the
platform.

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So this is kind of their, you
know, launching tool.

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You're going to hear them on
loads of other, I'm sure,

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podcasts and publications
talking about this, you know,

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fantastic new launch and it now
covers multiple channels with

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powerful analysis tools and
thoughtfully integrated AI.

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It's designed for performance
marketers navigating a world

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that's a lot more automated than
it used to be.

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We know about that.
If you're not using AI, you

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might as well not be doing paid
search at all, right?

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Right now they're also expanding
their agency growth programme,

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helping agencies grow into
channels like Microsoft and more

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recently TikTok.
So if you're managing either of

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those, they are definitely
people worth knowing and All in

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all, it feels like it's going to
be a big year for them.

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So yeah, check out what they're
doing.

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There's loads of exciting stuff
ahead, but before we get into

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like the the crux of what we're
going to talk about, because it

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is don't worry, you know, don't
do like, Oh my God, I know you

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just is this just a brand coming
to share what they do and how

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great they are?
No, they are going to share F

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UPS.
They're going to, you know, go

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down the path of being a bit,
you know, self deprecated and

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trying to look back as things
where things have gone wrong and

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you know how they responded to
that.

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But so that you know, our lovely
speakers are the lovely reps

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from Uptario a little bit
better.

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They're going to share a few of
the fun facts about them from

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you know what, sorry, I'm
actually going to get them to do

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this.
So, so Shakira, your fun fact

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and you'll hear her speak and
then have fun fact when really

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makes sense as to why it is a
fun fact.

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Shakira, what's your fun fact?
My fun fact is, despite this

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lovely English accent, when I
was growing up, I had quite a

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thick Irish accent.
When I started school.

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Yeah, I came in with a very
thick Irish accent, obviously

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very disappeared quickly and I
can't do an Irish accent full

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disclaimer anymore.
Oh, I at the beginning of the I

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was going to try and get her to
do something to her phrase, but

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let's not let's inform any Irish
listeners.

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Maybe we don't, we don't set
them up, but like, so how long

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were you in Ireland for before
you not?

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That long?
A couple of years, but it was

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like formative years.
So, you know, like when I first

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started school.
Yeah, it was.

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It was quite.
Right, the knowledge and pick OK

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and Adam, what's your fun fact?
It's not not quite as shocking

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and she curious but like being
from the northeast of England,

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proud Geordie are very much
planned and still half.

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Do you plan to be a professional
footballer at some point?

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So.
Who I know.

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If ever I start I guess becoming
less available, then you know, I

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finally have the call up from
from Newcastle United.

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Right, Newcastle United, that's
the thing, You're, you're 100%

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Course A. 100% no.
One else, no one else.

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Love it.
Love it.

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But there's another fun fact
that I do love as I'm a very

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music inclined person.
Please tell us your second fun

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factors.
Yeah.

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OK.
So I mean, I wouldn't have said

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it's necessarily that fun of a
fact that me and my brother who

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also does work here at Optio,
James, shout out to James.

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We we do like to stay tuned on
the weekend where you could call

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us DJ's, bedroom DJ's would be
the qualifier.

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We just normally get roped into
playing our mates birthday

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parties and house parties
whenever that happens.

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Nice, nice.
No?

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Look, it's nice to have a fun
thing that has nothing to do

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with the marketing world and
digital marketing world that

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that you do.
So you and your brother must be

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really close.
You work together, you DJ

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together.
Is is, has it always been like

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that?
Great family relationship?

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It has actually really lucky to
to for it to have turned out

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that way.
There's a five year age gap

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between us.
So when we were growing up, like

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I would safe to say we went as
close as we are now.

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Like it's just the an annoying
younger brother used to get

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picked on from all my mates.
But like as, as we grew up, we

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realised it's like a freebie
mate, isn't it?

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Like if you can get on well with
your sibling and you've got a

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lot of common ground.
We actually live together as

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well, which is, yeah, it would
be a bit annoying if we didn't

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get on.
So one of them we do.

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Mum will be pleased to hear me
talk about.

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I'm so positive.
I'm sure you'll be listening to

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this at some point.
Of course, of course you better

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send this link to her.
Better send this to her.

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That would be fantastic.
I will.

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So yeah, going going now
straight into, you know what we

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talk about on on this podcast?
It's all about sharing, Fr

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sharing mistakes that we've made
and that this episode is going

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to be no difference.
And really grateful that Adam

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and Shakira you're going to be
talking about means that I've

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gone wrong.
And I'm also grateful for your

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founder, Guillaume and, you
know, for allowing this to

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happen because Yahoo, which tech
company is actually brave enough

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to be like, yeah, we did this
wrong, you know, But yeah,

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thankfully you guys are, you
know, being very good at, you

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know, working on that, creating
new solutions for your

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customers.
But yeah, let's get into talking

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about that.
I think, Adam, you're going to

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kick us off.
What is the F up that you want

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to share today?
Yeah, well, I just want to start

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off by saying thank you very
much once again for having us

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on.
We have been huge fans of what

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you've been building at PPC Life
for a while now.

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I know you mentioned the all
just said he reminds me ever so

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often that he was at your first
ever PPC live event.

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So we are really pleased to be
sponsoring the podcast for the

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year and events for the year
ahead.

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Amazing.
Yeah, excited to share what

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we've been working on as well.
And I guess through through the

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lens of what is I haven't.
I was fair on here, aren't I?

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Are you allowed to swear?
Yeah, just to clarify.

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Yeah, yeah.
Don't rollback like DJ speaking

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the language that you.
Were easy.

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I'll do, I'll do easy three.
What was ultimately a kind of

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turned out to be a bigger fuck
up than what it was if we hadn't

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dealt with it the way that we
did.

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Yeah.
So yeah, Shakira and I, you may

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well have recognised our faces
if anyone, any listener there.

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Also anyone watching on YouTube,
which I've always wanted to say

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this, anyone watching on YouTube
listening may have recognised

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names, voices.
If you've been an Optio user

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over the years.
We've been at the company since

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day two, haven't really secure
if like we missed the risky

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founding path, but we are, We
were one of the first cohort of

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hires, team members who didn't
code, didn't design, didn't

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develop.
So we've grown through various

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iterations of Google Ads,
various iterations of Optio,

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learned a fair bit along the
way.

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And talking of such iterations,
we are about to release a new

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version.
In fact, we kind of have started

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to slowly roll this out and it
took a bit of learning and a lot

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of struggle to get to that
point.

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So I guess that's kind of the
fucked up that we're going to

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talk about today is how
distilling it to a sentence, the

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rise of AI and automation has
changed what it means to be a

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Google Ads Manager, and
therefore by proxy, has very

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much changed what it means to be
a tool that says Google Ads

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managers.
No, absolutely AI definitely

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changed the landscape for for a
lot of us.

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I mean, some of us would say
like, you know, Niels Rugeman,

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who was was was fantastic, like
speaker at our last event and

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you know, who has been doing
working on scripts, you know,

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and him and him and I fell in
love, you know, and actually I

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fell in love with each other.
Let's clarify that.

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Fell in love with ultimation,
fell in love with paid search

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and God became really good
friends for our love of create

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such kind of thing.
I love of doing automation and

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that's how we became really good
friends.

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And the whole automation thing
has been around for a long time,

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but the fact that it's now
became, you know, show the main,

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the main show was like Google
ads with some notation.

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Now it's automation through
Google ads a little bit kind of

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thing, you know, but yeah, so
you said that.

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I didn't say it's like the past
couple of years situation came

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really big, AI became really
big, really great.

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And what was the thing that
really or slow into the way you

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guys did things or just kind of
kind of your response at what

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stage as well did you like, OK,
we need to be acting faster?

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Yeah, Well, it's a good question
because I mean, AII mean you

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mentioned it's not necessarily a
new thing AI automation.

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Like I remember my when I
started at Octa, it would have

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been 2017.
Now it was the year before that

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when Google started a roll out
smart bidding.

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Yeah.
And I can remember, I can still

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remember one of my first days at
the office, sat down with the

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and he had his pen and paper out
trying to explain to me how a

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smart bidding algorithm works.
And it was all shrouded around

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this.
Be aware because customers are

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going to have worries and
concerns about it.

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00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:20,160
And for so long, like that was
the normal, like we'd see the

227
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,480
automated product releasing
Google ads customer reaction,

228
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,360
like user reaction through our
support inboxes often like a

229
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,920
good barometer.
So, so long we would always

230
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,720
sounds strong, but almost like
reject it.

231
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,480
You know, it was it was kind of
like a yeah in the very early

232
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,920
days because there was there
wasn't the trust or the

233
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,200
robustness behind these
algorithms that that there are

234
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,840
today.
And it took us a while and our

235
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,920
users a while to access accept
that this is the way that Google

236
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,800
is heading.
There is nothing we can do about

237
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,280
it.
So we shouldn't keep trying to

238
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,760
hold on to the old ways of
managing Google ads.

239
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,920
You know, this idea where we're
losing transparency when we're

240
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,520
losing control and Optio is a
solution was always OK.

241
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,440
Well we're going to try and do
all we can to help you use the

242
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,720
manual alternative to this.
Product.

243
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:10,760
But we're going to give you the
benefits, the time saving

244
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benefits through our own
algorithms, which don't require

245
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,360
you handing control over to the
to the overlords of the big ads

246
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platforms.
And it is in fine sight.

247
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,280
I think it was probably the
release of P Max when we Google

248
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240
really went all in with it.
OK, full box black box

249
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,200
transparency here.
And they took away our ability

250
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,400
to muscle in, you know, pull
these action users.

251
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:35,960
And that was run before.
OK.

252
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,400
We kind of might need to go back
to the drawing board here and

253
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,400
think about what do we need to
change fundamentally to make

254
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,240
sure that we're continuing to
give our users an edge today and

255
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,880
also tomorrow moving forward.
Absolutely no.

256
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,160
That's a very, very interesting
and great point.

257
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,600
A point and to be honest,
really, really impressed that

258
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,600
you guys I'd say weathered this
storm.

259
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,720
I know I definitely feel like,
you know, I might probably even

260
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,600
be on the plane for how tools
really needed to be able to

261
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,680
respond to like, OK, we can't
just be like, OK, we'll be the

262
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:11,800
one that shows you the
visibility while Google is

263
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,120
closing now Google like this
big, big him off of like, you

264
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,920
know, a brand, they've got the
monopoly.

265
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,600
There's so many like lawsuits
against them that it's literally

266
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,320
like, yeah.
And they're still doing business

267
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:27,920
as usual.
So And honestly, I wouldn't

268
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,360
because this is not about, you
know, you know, putting down any

269
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,520
other brands, but some brands
didn't make it.

270
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,240
Generally.
Some brands had the same issues

271
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,320
that you guys had.
They weren't able to, you know,

272
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,000
change the direction of their
ship.

273
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,880
Their ship had been built such
in a very, you know, stagnant

274
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,120
way that they weren't able to
really respond in kind that kind

275
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,600
of way.
But one thing I'm curious about,

276
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,160
even from my experience that I
used to work for a different,

277
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,880
you know, tool at some point,
were you seeing that your

278
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,640
customers like when like those
smart campaigns are smart

279
00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,600
bidding?
Where were working?

280
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,040
What were they?
Were your customers not finding

281
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,880
smart bidding working well for
them?

282
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,760
So you guys were an alternative
solution or their customers,

283
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,000
customers were just or customers
more apprehensive of this new

284
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,640
thing, so they didn't try it.
I think a mix of the both, but I

285
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,400
my memory is more so that the
the latter is what prevailed

286
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,840
there.
It was, it was definitely

287
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,920
wrapped up in this idea where I
mean I got, I'm talking nearly

288
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,040
10 years ago now like this.
It was it was very much a new

289
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,240
thing and everyone that was
managing campaigns at the time,

290
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,440
they were somewhat set in stone
or like they tried and tested

291
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,400
processes and like, hey, I'm so
used to controlling everything

292
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,640
down to daily keyword bid
adjustments.

293
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,600
And now all of a sudden there's
this new way of expected to

294
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,360
trust these.
You know, that the I say these

295
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,240
algorithms as if they're
entirely bad.

296
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,160
Of course, they're not like time
is the stood the test of time.

297
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,720
And then they're more robust,
more refined, but there were

298
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,240
benefits to it.
But we would just give them the

299
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,440
security, the Peace of Mind and
not, you know, we can help you

300
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,600
with these massive time saving
benefits, standardisation

301
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,040
benefits as well, but just
continue using the bidding

302
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,880
strategies that you used to.
And in hindsight, as we're about

303
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,040
to get on to, maybe we should
have took an AC company and join

304
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,360
an approach a little sooner.
Can I also, I it's been too

305
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,560
late.
I saw this like 5 minutes into

306
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,480
the call.
Shout out to your heart.

307
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,080
Shout out to the yeah, yeah,
making because it's all about

308
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,920
that.
At some point Google were just

309
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,120
taking a lots of things and one
of those things was the exact

310
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,160
match issue and the fact that
all close verits and everything

311
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,840
that we're like what is a batch
type anymore?

312
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,440
And whether you like it or not,
it is part of that journey into

313
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,160
making more things more
automated because it was a

314
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,680
matter of no, you can't just
tell us the exact thing that you

315
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,080
want to bid on.
We're going to decide for you.

316
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,800
We're going to decide the
variety of that actually exact

317
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,200
word that we feel that, you
know, your ads should be showing

318
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,040
again some.
So, yeah, that was definitely

319
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,280
one of those limits or movements
in that area as well.

320
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,440
So like now going on to like how
you guys did turn it around.

321
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,920
You mentioned the fact that when
then P Max came about, that's

322
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,360
when you started thinking, oh,
actually maybe we should do

323
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,320
some.
Although my memory of P Max, I

324
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,200
don't know about you, is that
loads of people complained about

325
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,640
it at the beginning.
P Max was a, was a like a, yeah,

326
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,040
a trash fire.
And it's really actually only

327
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,400
recently with, you know, channel
reporting and you know, you

328
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,120
know, having more access to like
your search query reports on an

329
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,960
asset groups that people have
been more oh, OK, now I have

330
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,320
more visibility.
But at the beginning people were

331
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,040
a bit annoyed with it.
So was it right to the beginning

332
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,200
of P Max coming out that you
guys or you or you waited a bit?

333
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,040
Go on.
Yeah, no, it wasn't.

334
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,960
So we actually funnily enough we
are very early days in P Max.

335
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,120
We had a a really nice value
adding optio and that we built a

336
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,680
tool which supported or could
reveal performance match search

337
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,560
terms before they were available
through the API.

338
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,599
Wow, OK.
And I think that in hindsight,

339
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:10,960
that probably delayed the
motivation behind making this

340
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,280
decision to have a big rethink.
It's because, oh, wow, we can

341
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,560
keep doing what we're doing.
It was almost like an accidental

342
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,800
feature, to be honest.
OK, we found a cool way to

343
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,440
engineer these search terms and
apply what's named called N

344
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,000
gramme analysis.
Sure.

345
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,240
Adding new negative keywords and
answer to your question, no, it

346
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,160
was probably a couple years
after P Max was originally

347
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,720
introduced.
I think it was maybe 2021 when P

348
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,760
Max is fully rolled out the year
before in beta.

349
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,960
So we matched that like this
gradual rollout and increase in

350
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,680
adoption with performance marks
by taking a look at the data we

351
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,600
had access to.
So primarily user actions inside

352
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,840
our platform and we noticed that
what was the wheelhouse of

353
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,840
options for so long daily
recommendations to help you

354
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,000
manage manual campaigns starting
to trend downwards in terms of

355
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,000
numbers applied, at which point
that was what's faded on really

356
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,920
it was OK P Max's adoptions
going up and performance is

357
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,280
getting better and it's clearly
going nowhere.

358
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,880
Although last year or so maybe
is a different angle to take on

359
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,080
that believe P Max has started
to taper off a little bit in

360
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,480
term of tentative adoption
rates.

361
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,080
But we just thought that this
this daily recommendations is

362
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,000
being holding on to this idea of
controlling campaigns in the old

363
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,520
way is not going to stand us in
good stead for the long term.

364
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,240
So that's where we went back to
the drawing board.

365
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,240
Yeah, sorry, I've been like I'm
talking a lot here about.

366
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,560
That Shakira, Shakira is going
to take the stage now for us and

367
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,840
telling us from like, you know,
what happened at the drawing

368
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,120
board.
How did?

369
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,360
How did things then turn around?
Yeah.

370
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:59,360
I mean, yeah, we, as you know,
we spent many, many, many months

371
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,120
rebuilding the app from the
ground up, which was no easy

372
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,440
feat.
I don't think anyone, any tool

373
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,960
tech company decides to take on
that endeavour lightly.

374
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,600
And it was, yeah, I mean, Adam
probably agree it was a

375
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,800
difficult year of not releasing
much to the public, to users,

376
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,000
but behind the scenes being like
incredibly busy and incredibly

377
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,000
stressed out.
Yeah.

378
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,480
I think we we navigated that
well.

379
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,240
We're here now.
We're kind of proud of of where

380
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,680
we've ended up after that year
of rebuild.

381
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,720
Yeah.
I mean, Adam, I know you had

382
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,920
some some thoughts that you want
wanted to share on on this bit.

383
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,440
Yeah.
I mean this is a case of, you

384
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,120
know, the first time ever going
back to the drawing board and

385
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,960
you think realising that it's
not just new small iterations of

386
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,960
updates which you've been so
used to.

387
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,160
Like I'm ultimately doing a bit
of market research like speaking

388
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,680
to first and foremost our loyal
customers.

389
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,800
You know, we had hundreds of see
back calls SM about Optio of

390
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,440
course, but also more
importantly at this point about.

391
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,320
Outside of up to you like what
are they actually spending their

392
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:09,120
time doing every day?
You know this time consuming

393
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,280
daily grunt work which we set
out to help users eliminate back

394
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,440
in the early days, which
nowadays can in many cases

395
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,360
actually be solved by in
platform automation.

396
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,680
You've got your automated
bidding strategies, you've got

397
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,840
your responsive ads.
So you don't need to manage it

398
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,320
split test for the ETA's.
So it was just a case of

399
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,920
thinking, OK, what are you
doing?

400
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,200
What are we not doing to help
you with what you do?

401
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,680
And you know that that was so
there was existing customers.

402
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,240
We actually, we looked at a lot
of, as I say, the data, which

403
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,320
I'm actually curious to talk on
a bit more late shortly, but

404
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,720
also we got, we made an effort
and I'm sure some of the

405
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,160
listeners here will.
Yeah, well, we'll agree that you

406
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,200
may have bumped into US and
you've mentioned that already at

407
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,120
industry events over the last
couple of years.

408
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:58,600
Like we made a point to put our
faces out there and meet experts

409
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,720
in the fields that really
learned, what do you need?

410
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,040
Like who are we building this
thing for and what are the

411
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,480
challenges?
What keeps you awake at night?

412
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,840
And what we realised that we
know it sounds like we're just,

413
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,520
we've got to put a target on the
back of AI and ordination here.

414
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,920
But you know that it is all a
consequence, whether intended or

415
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,560
otherwise, of how our our way of
life has changed as a Google Ads

416
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,280
Manager now that AI is the
default.

417
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,000
So sorry Ani.
No, no, go ahead.

418
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,440
Yeah, absolutely.
I'll just say absolutely.

419
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,400
Yeah, you're right.
Oh, thought long and hard about

420
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,720
this and I think I can distil
what we found to three points.

421
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:38,640
So first, being the role of a
Google Ads specialist, what

422
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,640
we're seeing is perhaps on the
decline, you know, whether it's,

423
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,680
you touched on the and again,
don't want to get too political

424
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,880
here, but the court case with
Google, maybe there is something

425
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,040
to be said in that visit.
I guess a default lack of trust

426
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,920
at the moment, all time high.
You know, maybe advertisers are

427
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,680
a little less reluctant to
invest in Google Ads.

428
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,840
Maybe there's also new
opportunities have opened up in

429
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,920
other channels.
What we're seeing is talk to

430
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,120
your users who signed up
managing just a Google ads

431
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,960
account and now managing a
Microsoft emeta, a LinkedIn and

432
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,080
in some cases a tick, well in
many cases more.

433
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,360
But in those are the new
channels which we've ultimately

434
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,800
decided to to roll up into
Optio.

435
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,680
Off the back of this big project
we can officially say we are a

436
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,920
multi channel automation tool,
not just a Google ad one which

437
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,600
is exciting.
And what what I'd love to love

438
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280
you to touch upon because, yeah,
you're right that there's an all

439
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,480
time low in changing, you know,
changing tact in terms of like,

440
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,200
you know, trust Google trust for
them.

441
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,680
And also a big challenge in kind
of trying to make those changes

442
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,080
in terms of like, OK, finally
going all right, we need to we

443
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,720
need to get on board with all
this, this AI stuff.

444
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,560
And what how what does that mean
for a marketer?

445
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,800
And how do we support this paid
search marketers in a way where

446
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,080
they are more integrated with
their the other channels and

447
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,920
it's more like they're working
for the brand success.

448
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,800
I think that's a big thing that
has shifted where a lot of time

449
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,160
the paid search managers job was
to drive traffic.

450
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,120
Now you're really supposed to be
like, yeah, you might be driving

451
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,120
traffic and your PPC might be
doing revenue, great revenue,

452
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,120
but if the business is not
making money, they're going to

453
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:22,840
cut your cost.
And so you need to know what are

454
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,280
the other channels are doing?
What are the marketing factors

455
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,040
that are going to be affecting
what what that paid site manager

456
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,400
is going to be doing?
But like what also I'd like you

457
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,080
to touch upon is that with those
changes, what would you say what

458
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:34,920
you know, because you just said
you did some big market

459
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,280
research, went to several
different events.

460
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,880
I saw those.
I got a little bit jealous

461
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,640
sometimes my my aunt.
I was like, I hope you're coming

462
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,000
back to BBC Live.
Of course you have asked.

463
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,400
Of course, we never leave you.
Good guys.

464
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,600
I love that.
But yeah, what would you say?

465
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,680
Well, really that some of those
big challenges for like a tool

466
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,840
to to do what, what, what aspect
of that re shifting of that year

467
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,040
of, of trying to really like
kind of reach change what you

468
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,040
guys actually did?
What what parts of it was the

469
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,240
most challenging for you guys?
Yeah, well, it's those

470
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,160
developers will tell me for
saying this, but the boring

471
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,280
stuff, from my point of view,
the data stuff, it's just

472
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,880
they're doing some very clever
stuff behind the background.

473
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,160
This idea of, you know, we've
got 10 years worth of code which

474
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,440
we built to support Google Ads.
You know, Microsoft Ads is

475
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,800
pretty similar.
But the matter is not, is not at

476
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,720
all.
So we have to find a way.

477
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,560
We're still a small team.
We don't have the time to

478
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,960
continue to build for individual
features moving forward or five.

479
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,480
So there was a lot of the, the
work behind the scenes went into

480
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,160
a way to almost like normalise
the data between the four or

481
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,760
five platforms that we're now
supporting.

482
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,960
So we can effectively build 1
feature and it can as close as

483
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,480
we can get it to copy paste
across the others.

484
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,440
So there's a big emphasis on
optio of getting all of the

485
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,400
channels performance data in one
place.

486
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,520
And you don't need to bounce
between different ads platforms.

487
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,280
Holistic view, as you've touched
on there, how's the business

488
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,640
performing rather than just
how's, how's my Google ads

489
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,160
account performing?
It's it was all taken into

490
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,800
consideration when we redesigned
the interface, but also thought

491
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,840
about how we're plugging in all
these data sources.

492
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,000
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So yeah, that change of date,

493
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,040
that's a very good point.
Honestly, I think I'm going to

494
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,120
actually the way I'm going to
promote this episode is like the

495
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,520
most honest of an interview
you'll get with a tool company

496
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,920
as you can get, because you you
know, all the tools are these

497
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,680
like, Oh, we do great thing we
do this with this.

498
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,960
But actually talking about, you
know, what are the true, you

499
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,200
know, annoyances.
Just the software engineers will

500
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,240
love you for this all year.
All.

501
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,480
All of.
Them because.

502
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,120
Because you're being honest
about how it's challenging, I

503
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:53,040
think we underestimate how much
coding it takes to, you know, be

504
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,400
an API to be able to work with
the API.

505
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,480
And I think sometimes we're
like, oh, you've done it for

506
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,200
Google, so you can do it for
anything, right?

507
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,440
And actually it's reported to
know.

508
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,680
No, no, you can't.
It might even take a brand new

509
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,560
learn and it might take a brand
new, you know, need to go on

510
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,240
another course and how meta does
things will be different how

511
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,160
TikTok do and and it's all
because they're just trying to

512
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,160
be challenging against each
other.

513
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,840
Like Facebook and Apple, we
know, hate each other.

514
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,880
So there's no way that because
you can code for Apple means

515
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,400
that you can code for Facebook.
Absolutely not.

516
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,200
And that that works with all the
different, you know, big brands.

517
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,320
So I think that is such a very
insightful thing for you to

518
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,280
actually share with us on that.
So yeah, definitely thank you

519
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,920
for that.
So like how are your customers

520
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,080
in terms of this process?
You know, where was it a

521
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,280
difficult time for customer
retention?

522
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,880
You know, I know you don't, we
don't necessarily.

523
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,560
I mean every every brand that
has this, any time you have a

524
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,080
client, your agencies have the
issues with like customers come,

525
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,520
customers go kind of thing.
Was that quite stable for you

526
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,840
guys or?
And yeah, please touch on that.

527
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,080
Yeah, it was, I wouldn't say it
was alarming, but it wasn't, it

528
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,520
wasn't a period of exciting
growth that we've been used to

529
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,560
for so long.
We really were I guess the

530
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,560
reason why we're here to talk
about and I'm conscious of

531
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,640
framing this around not being
fearful of change, but more like

532
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,600
complacency.
Like we, we were really on to a

533
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,240
winner for so long and it was
start to taper off a little bit

534
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,640
and then things kind of started
to continue to taper off.

535
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,080
And then like releasing new
features in the frame of what we

536
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,400
were used to didn't really fix a
customer retention or customer

537
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,920
acquisition.
So bluntly.

538
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,440
Yeah, that mean the numbers, the
lines going down on a graph are

539
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,760
what motivate you to have tough
conversations and decide to

540
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:44,400
spend 18 months like on
essentially a feature freezing

541
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,640
to rebuild but necessary.
And we're already starting to

542
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,520
see the benefits of it amongst
the customers who we've.

543
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,760
I mean, some of our users have
been with us for 10 years as

544
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,520
transparent as possible with
them throughout this whole this

545
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,720
whole process is.
Yeah, I know things maybe aren't

546
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,480
moving as fast as what we would
ideally like, but, you know,

547
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,360
keeping them abreast of all the
plans and updates and you know,

548
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,760
in many cases showing them what
we've been working on as it

549
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,800
progresses.
I think it goes a lot some way

550
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,000
to, to just be honest with your
customers as much as you can.

551
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,560
Absolutely, especially for a SAS
tool.

552
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,120
Again, we're not, we're not an
agency.

553
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,640
It's not like we have personal
relationships with all of our

554
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,840
clients.
So it's really hard to be

555
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,400
personally honest with everyone.
But you know, whenever someone

556
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,760
does have a question, just like
tell them how it is.

557
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,920
Ultimately, there's a lot of
users that put a lot of faith in

558
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,360
US and we're looking forward to
paying it back to them over the

559
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,160
next couple of weeks.
Absolutely.

560
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,680
How about you, Shakira?
Do you what, what do you feel

561
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,520
like?
What?

562
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,320
Because yeah, both of you will
have your different like

563
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,800
customer bases that you were
speaking to.

564
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,560
What were you getting in terms
of like, what was what, what,

565
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,120
what was the temperature like
for customers during that time

566
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,080
of like needing to overhaul?
Yeah.

567
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,440
I mean, I, I speak to customers
every single day like I have

568
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,680
done for pretty much like the
past seven years, right?

569
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,160
So, yeah, it wasn't like a
particularly comfortable time.

570
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,960
But when we, we're really lucky
that I don't know whether it's

571
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,520
just us, but like our user base,
a lovely bunch of people.

572
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,760
And we tend to have, like Adam
said, a lot of our users have

573
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,960
been around for for years and
years and years.

574
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,400
And a lot of them, you know,
root for us and were rooting for

575
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,840
us during that, that kind of
feature freeze, which was nice

576
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,160
and that was encouraging too.
I think a lot of it came from,

577
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,880
like Adam said, transparency,
being honest, having that open

578
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,600
dialogue between us and them,
letting them into what we're up

579
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,520
to instead of just like shutting
them out completely because

580
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,480
we're nervous or embarrassed or
scared.

581
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,760
Yeah, just having that open
dialogue I think helped.

582
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,120
And yeah, certainly wasn't a
comfortable.

583
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,760
Yeah, that's that's how I put
it.

584
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,360
Absolutely.
No.

585
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,920
Yeah.
And when, when you need to make

586
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,600
this changes and when it can be
like, because guys, we've been

587
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,960
very honest in terms of like you
are not quick on the jump to

588
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,440
actually make the change.
And then it's, it's can be

589
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,400
really heartwarming that you
have customers, as you said, who

590
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,360
are rooting for you.
So you're like, okay, kind of a

591
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,880
bit of that helps the journey,
which is really great to hear

592
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,800
where I I didn't realise how
long we've been talking for

593
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,160
because I've been interested in
all of this.

594
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,960
But so we're going to have to
switch gears very soon because

595
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,160
I'd love us to also touch on the
fact of like what you feel like,

596
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,520
you know, customers now are
being, you know, reacting or

597
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,840
maybe mistakes that you see that
coming into like when you get

598
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,560
new clients, I'm sure they're
like, oh, can you audit?

599
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,240
We've not, we've not been doing
this.

600
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,160
Well, can you help us with this?
We'll be ready to get to talk on

601
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,920
that.
But before we get into that bit,

602
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,640
what's 1, you know, big takeaway
you'd like to leave our

603
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,960
audiences with in terms of like
that, that, that journey you

604
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,960
guys had from, from, from going
to a state of let's, let's,

605
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,200
let's help our customers deal
with the status quo and get back

606
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,160
onto the status quo to them
embracing the whole AI evolution

607
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,160
revolution.
Yeah, yeah.

608
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,160
What?
So the question is what take

609
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,080
away what?
Take away what for anyone?

610
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,600
I mean, if you're a tech tool,
my price would be to definitely

611
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,400
step out of any echo chain biz
you're in.

612
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,560
Yeah.
I think all the answers you kind

613
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,160
of need are with the customers
and with the users.

614
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,480
So don't be scared, don't be
embarrassed if you feel like

615
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,720
you're on the right, off the
right track.

616
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,560
That's not the way you say, but
yeah, you know what I mean?

617
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,840
And yeah, just get out of any
echo chamber and, and just get

618
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,880
your face out there.
Go to events like we did, like

619
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,600
speak to the people you're
you're building for.

620
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,160
Yeah, speaking to the customers
is a big thing for sure.

621
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,840
Yeah, it sounds like a cliche,
but it's.

622
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,760
But people don't do it enough.
That's why it's still being

623
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,720
said.
We can it things that sound like

624
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,160
a cliche that people always say,
I always like me and my friends

625
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,720
will say, you know, we'll talk
about some advices that still

626
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,760
being given about on paid
search.

627
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,240
As you know, people are still
going, Oh yeah, don't use broad

628
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,160
match too much or make sure it
has guard rails.

629
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,480
And and this lady, she's an SCO
senior expert.

630
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,920
She's like, really?
They're still giving those basic

631
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,880
advice.
And I'm like, you've got to

632
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,800
realise that maybe the reason
that advice is still being

633
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,440
giving is that people are still
not adhering to it.

634
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,200
People are forgetting people are
literally, it seems like basic

635
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,800
to us because we're in it every
day.

636
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,000
But their new account managers
coming to the scene, their new

637
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,440
brands, you know, popping up,
the new people discovering paid

638
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,960
site for the first time.
And they're still making the

639
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,800
stupid errors because obviously
Google is going to push for the

640
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,800
strategy that makes them the
most money.

641
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,800
That common sense to paid search
markets as we know not to do it.

642
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,480
And yeah, it all ties in with
Google Trust.

643
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,720
How do we trust Google?
And some people, they don't

644
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,360
know, they don't know yet to not
trust Google.

645
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,520
That's the thing, yeah.
Yeah, we, we, we've seen that I

646
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,760
would say overall change
gradually, not of course, not

647
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:04,840
thoroughly.
I think you touched on it,

648
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,560
newcomers to Google Ads, it's
easier to, or you've got to,

649
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,640
you've got to experience it.
Google has to give you a reason

650
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,160
maybe not not to fully trust
them.

651
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,240
You know, I guess as you're
starting out, it's so easy to

652
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,720
believe the big authority figure
in, you know, the power pairing

653
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,480
of Toilet Row, Assim and OK Max
and Board Match.

654
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,160
Right power pair.
But yeah, exactly.

655
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,440
But what put it this, if you've
gone back back to it?

656
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,800
But it's just the guardrails,
isn't it?

657
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,680
You know, just yeah, they're not
saying don't use the power

658
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,960
pairing.
It's just don't set it up and

659
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,160
then forget about it just
because the average row ass

660
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,920
seems to be good in the end.
Like there are ways for you to,

661
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,600
I guess, apply a guardrail that
maybe other agencies aren't

662
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,360
doing.
Yeah.

663
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,600
And sometimes it does take
looking up things from a

664
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,000
different perspective to be able
to to see those those

665
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,280
guardrails.
Yeah, no, absolutely.

666
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,960
Well, thank you guys for for
that.

667
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,680
That's been a very genuinely
most honest conversation I've

668
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,440
had with the tech tool.
I don't know whether I'll be

669
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,520
able to do that again.
In fact, I might use your

670
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,000
episode to implore all the tech
tools to be a bit more honest

671
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,440
because, yeah, because it's it's
a good, it's a good fresh

672
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,760
perspective.
It's a refreshing to have that

673
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,199
kind of conversation with, you
know, SAS tool.

674
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,360
But yeah, now, now get into that
whole like, you know, when

675
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,320
sometimes new clients come on
board and they're, you know,

676
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,600
they need help with certain area
they've been doing wrong for a

677
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,920
while.
And, you know, what are some of

678
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,960
like those like big errors that
you feel brands are still doing,

679
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,639
managers are still doing.
Now you're like, guys, this

680
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:38,760
should be basic.
Like we just said a minute ago,

681
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,080
this should be basic.
Like you shouldn't be doing this

682
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,800
anymore.
How come it's still happening?

683
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,480
What are some of those obvious
or some of your favourite ones?

684
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,960
It might not even be something
that's hard or easy, might just

685
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,159
something that has stuck out in
your head.

686
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,280
Shakira, do you want to start
also?

687
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,000
Yeah, I mean for me it's quite
broad, but I see it all the

688
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,680
time.
I was saying to Adam like knee

689
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,640
jerk reactions from PPCS is, is
something I see all the time and

690
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,040
it manifests for me quite
clearly because I when Peanuts

691
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,480
came out, for example, I
remember like chatting to loads

692
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,800
of people and they just kept
asking me, what are you guys

693
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,320
doing for P Max?
What do you do for P Max?

694
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,400
They were freaking out.
They just heard about this thing

695
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,080
coming out.
And I kind of calmly ask him,

696
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,240
well, what do you want?
What do you want to optimise for

697
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,480
P Max?
What are you currently doing?

698
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,560
You know manually that you want,
want a tool to help with?

699
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,640
And they had like nothing to
say.

700
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,200
They had no answer.
They didn't really know what

701
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,720
they were asking.
Yeah.

702
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,840
And so I still see that.
Well, I have seen that

703
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,000
historically and I expect to
keep seeing it where people,

704
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,720
yeah, have really knee jerk
reactions to to new stuff that

705
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,520
drops.
And it'd be nice if people took

706
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,800
a calm, measured approach when
new stuff drops in and just sees

707
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,520
it as an exciting opportunity to
explore something new instead of

708
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,760
scary.
Yeah, absolutely.

709
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,160
How are you, Adam?
What are your, like favourites?

710
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:00,480
Oh my God.
So if I if I try and like get

711
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,920
back to very like a recent
sample size, I would say the way

712
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,200
that I've seen some users
interacting with Optios AI, I

713
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,640
haven't had a chance to touch on
it yet, but we've introduced our

714
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,360
own AI chats integration
throughout the whole of Optio in

715
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,360
a new update.
And it's essentially A

716
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,400
standalone track feature way,
which can tap into like your

717
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,640
Google ads account or database
code base, various web searches.

718
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,800
And you can mean we've seen some
good, good use cases for the

719
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,400
users that are willing or not
willing or understand AI and

720
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,960
LLMS can't always give you a
perfect answer after a very,

721
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,680
very short and brief prompt.
I've seen some users work with

722
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,520
it to the point where they've
essentially replicated them

723
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,720
daily, month, weekly, monthly to
do lists for all clients in

724
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:52,120
optio to the point where they
save the prompt, return next

725
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,360
week to click all the buttons
and all the answers are given to

726
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,200
you already.
Because everything like pre

727
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,040
prompted and given the context
it needs to just go straight to

728
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,000
relevant part of the account.
So my recent example of this

729
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,920
sort of frustration would be
just trying to maybe expect too

730
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,880
much too soon from whatever AILM
about you guys are using.

731
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,400
Work with it a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, expect those for

732
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,680
sure.
I think if people like

733
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,200
especially, yes, again, this is
for those who are new, we should

734
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,880
never forget that the, the
industry is always involving.

735
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,840
The people we're speaking to
might be people who just joined

736
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,680
the industry maybe 2-3 years
ago, because it's the people who

737
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,520
have been in this for a long
time that we know, you know,

738
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,600
give it a while, give it a while
to learn.

739
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,840
And the newbies, they're like,
Oh yeah, I did the first results

740
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,320
is exactly what it's going to
do.

741
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,400
I'm like, no, no, it's not.
Give it a give it time to learn.

742
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,200
So yeah, now also even going
into like how, how AI, the what

743
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,080
the AI frontier is going to be
about.

744
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,480
Like do you guys have any advice
in terms of for the future for

745
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,440
2026, what's what's, what people
should prepare for or just what

746
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,720
are your predictions for this
year of how, how, how the

747
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,320
industry, what's going to be
like our biggest challenge to

748
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,400
really face in terms of the
world?

749
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,040
Of AI, I think we're going to
see this like move into this

750
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,640
fully agentic future backfire, I
think people.

751
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,160
Are going to think it's going to
backfire I mean we're.

752
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,480
We're, we're super interested in
the idea that, that it can do

753
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,440
even more heavy lifting for you.
But I worry that there's a bit

754
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,520
of a, a gap between just
fundamental knowledge of PPC and

755
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,160
also just, you know, businesses,
your clients, your brand, like

756
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,680
what the important parts of
that.

757
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,600
Yeah.
If you don't have those

758
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,480
fundamentals in place and you're
relying on some AI agent to

759
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,720
actually push the buttons and do
the thinking, I can see that

760
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,080
backfiring massively.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

761
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,400
I agree.
I agree.

762
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,280
How about you, Adam?
Well, I think the big to boost,

763
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,320
whether it's to be or not is AI
Max.

764
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,880
Like I think it's I think the
warnings are and she here was

765
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,280
touched on it just before, like
this idea of like knee jerk

766
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,520
reactions and panic.
Like, I don't really see it

767
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,200
being as impactful as like the
introduction of performance Max

768
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,320
was.
Like it doesn't seem to be a new

769
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,040
to be fair.
I mean, P Max originally was an

770
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,760
evolution of smart shopping,
wasn't it?

771
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,760
So it was and then all of a
sudden Google removed smart

772
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,520
shopping and like transitioned
everything over to P Max.

773
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,800
If I don't know if Google
started to do the same thing

774
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:34,160
with getting Infinity to appear
in like the AI searches on the

775
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,040
Google search page and then
maybe.

776
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,120
But I think I saw, I think it
was it was a talk at your PPC

777
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,880
live was about last November or
October when you did 1.

778
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,880
And I remember the name of the
gentleman, but he was talking

779
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,280
about like market share of all
the LLMS.

780
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,080
And I think, I still think he
predicted like compared to like

781
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,360
paid.
Yeah, this was a TUG.

782
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:57,880
Wait, wait, wait.
Shortage.

783
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,160
Yeah.
Yeah, that Neil Baker from TUG.

784
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,280
Yeah, Yeah, Neil.
And it was Neil, Yeah, good

785
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,880
memory.
And he was saying that the

786
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,120
percentage of market share is
still like absolutely

787
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,480
negligible, but clearly, clearly
it's going nowhere.

788
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,400
So like it's a case of, yeah,
maybe get in testing early, but

789
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,640
don't expect to see the same
efficiencies as you would like a

790
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,280
traditionally and like a bottom
funnel search campaign.

791
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,760
It's testing budget.
As we know P Max didn't perform

792
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,560
well for a couple of years after
that was released.

793
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,680
And yeah, it's, it's similarly,
but I don't think the scale, the

794
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,280
potential risk or the wage that
will be dropped in the water

795
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,720
will be quite big with this AI
Max in my limit limited opinion.

796
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,160
Yeah, to be fair, like, you
know, I know some people are

797
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,200
going like, yeah, it's working
instead, you know, and all of

798
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,520
these things, it depends.
Some people are saying that it's

799
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,040
totally trash kind of thing.
But yeah, it's, it's all about

800
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,200
thinking that any, any new, new,
new new feature.

801
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,680
And you know, I'll be remiss not
to mention shout out to ChatGPT

802
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,920
ads and people who have had
their eyes on like Yoko, when is

803
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,720
it going to come to the UK?
Who knows?

804
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:06,880
Like I'm, I'm very intrigued to
just say the word of people who

805
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,000
have had the opportunity to test
it in the US to start a lot of

806
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,840
with like, yeah, in the
beginning stages are not not

807
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,200
going to be reflective of how it
actually will work on a long

808
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,400
term.
When they actually, you know,

809
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,120
then see results on what what
advertisers complain about and

810
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,360
what they did.
They decide to, you know, give

811
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,200
control, you know, of to for,
for that first advertisers to be

812
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,480
able to do so.
Yeah, that's very interesting.

813
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,000
You guys, the two of you have
been a fantastic pair to talk to

814
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,040
today.
Adam and Shakira, thank you so

815
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,160
much.
Before we go, before we do our

816
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,800
final sign of a nice fun non
PPC, non work question.

817
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:47,080
What if your PPC career were a
movie?

818
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,640
What would the title be?
It could be a movie that always

819
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,480
already out there.
You could come out with a brand

820
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,360
new title.
It doesn't matter either way.

821
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,480
Wax Shakira, do you want to go
first?

822
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,000
Oh, this is a this is a tricky
one that I'm not prepared for.

823
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,640
But you said, you said the
famous phrase a second ago and I

824
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,400
was thinking it's a phrase I use
probably every single day, which

825
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,880
is it depends.
Three.

826
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,520
OK, a lot of a lot of questions,
a lot of advice.

827
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,520
What do I do?
Whether it's in Google Ads or an

828
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,560
optio, it depends.
Let's talk.

829
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,120
It depends.
The Shakira movie, I love it.

830
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,200
I love it.
Let's do it.

831
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,000
How about you, Adam?
You can't say it depends now.

832
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:24,920
Sorry.
That's taken.

833
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,920
Well, it always depends what's
the honest answer?

834
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,880
No, no, I think because my my
PPC career equals my career with

835
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,880
Optio, I think it makes it'd be
sensible here for me to link it.

836
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,520
But somehow back to the change
which is happening here in the

837
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,960
products, you know, where we're
evolving.

838
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:45,440
So I was I was I was thinking
about this before the court.

839
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,000
Of course, spoiler alert
everyone.

840
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,480
I mean, might have suggested
that she was going to ask this

841
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,880
question and I was thinking
about, you know, it's a next

842
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,520
level.
It's a new phase, maybe some of

843
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,440
the best sequels, sequel movies
that have ever been made.

844
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:02,440
My opinion, Godfather Part 2,
Lord of the Rings episode 2 and

845
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,600
three, of course, 2 towers
returning again.

846
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:10,160
Yeah, but again, film extra
linking it back to AI and

847
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,840
automation.
I think the most fitting answer

848
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,000
here would be Terminator 2, Rise
of the Machines.

849
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,080
Oh, OK, OK.
Terminator 2, Rise of the

850
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,400
Machine.
I love that.

851
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,920
I love that, and I love the
explanation.

852
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,280
We don't need to say more about
that.

853
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,360
That's absolutely fantastic.
Yeah, the machines are coming.

854
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,800
Although, as Shakira said, it
might backfire.

855
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,960
All the Genting world might
backfire.

856
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,080
So yeah.
We'll see how it plays out,

857
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,000
yeah.
We'll see.

858
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,000
Just just make sure you're
saying please and thank you to

859
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,320
charge you.
Right.

860
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,680
I cannot yes, there's a whole
conversation about that Good.

861
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,280
Oh bless you guys.
It's been so great tracted with

862
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:49,840
you.
Where can we where?

863
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,120
Where's the best way to get, you
know the updates of what of TA

864
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,280
are doing?
Yeah.

865
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,000
I mean, so we have an early
access programme that we're

866
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,120
rolling out for the new version
of the app right now.

867
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,400
So if you go to optio.com/PPC
Live, then you can register for

868
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,920
early access and you can see
everything we've been up to and

869
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,360
get into a free trial for the
new stuff.

870
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,400
Amazing and I don't like any
other places like like maybe

871
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,080
LinkedIn.
Yeah.

872
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,360
I mean, we were getting a bit
active again on LinkedIn, aren't

873
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,440
we, on the Optio account secure.
We've been posting some

874
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,600
announcements on, I guess, the
early access programme, the new

875
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,560
agency growth partnership.
I.

876
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,800
Mean feel free to connect with
both of us, Shakira, our

877
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,360
teammate Ben, teammates Ben and
James as well.

878
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,760
We, if anyone has any questions
about what we've been up to,

879
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,320
what we've got planned, we would
just be so favourite thing to do

880
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,920
really is talk to people, give
us an opportunity.

881
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:49,680
We'll we'll answer everything
you've got.

882
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,840
I can attest for that.
They did, they absolutely love

883
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,200
chatting.
I'll have them at the events and

884
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,720
I'll be like, Yep, they're,
they're chatting away with some,

885
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,840
some new people, some about your
service.

886
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,120
And it's great.
It's what it's what makes the

887
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,000
event so, so lovely.
And so I, you know, like have

888
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,280
that great community feel.
So yeah.

889
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,720
For, for those who would love to
meet Adam and Shakira at any

890
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:13,560
future events that our next one
is April 29th.

891
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,880
That's going to be at Brighton,
but we're going to be back in

892
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,440
London on like July first, I
think it is.

893
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,320
It's the last Thursday of July.
So whichever that data is, we'll

894
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,320
be back in London.
So yeah, you'll get to have a

895
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,760
chat with the fun PPC Life
community, including Adam

896
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,640
Shakira.
But yeah, for now, thank you

897
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,160
both for joining the podcast
today and sharing so many great

898
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,960
learnings with our listeners.
Thank you guys.

899
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,760
Thank you very much.
Yeah, I appreciate it.

900
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,360
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Shakira.

901
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,280
Thank you so much, Adam, for
sharing that.

902
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,760
Very insightful behind the
scenes of what happens with a

903
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,080
SAS tool when you know changes
in the market happens where you

904
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,120
have to redirect 'cause I love
that advice, especially from

905
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,040
Shakira, about making sure that
you're not sitting in an echo

906
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,200
Chamber of what you feel that
you know the customer should do

907
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,360
or what you feel like you you
know, you've created the tool

908
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:09,800
for.
You should not just create the

909
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,840
tool for what you think in your
head.

910
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,360
You should create a tool for
what customers need.

911
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,680
So speak to your customers so
that they can help you lead the

912
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,600
direction of where what, you
know, releases that you should

913
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,960
make to ensure that you keep
having customers.

914
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,280
You know, you need customers to
ensure that you you, you thrive

915
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,280
and survive in in a, in the, you
know, B to B SaaS world.

916
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,400
So if you're not listening to
them, if you're not creating

917
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,720
something that they are going to
need, how you're going to

918
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:35,280
survive.
So always keep that in mind.

919
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,520
So, yeah, For more information
on the full transcript and show

920
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,120
notes and all those resources
and and links that we we shared

921
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,320
on that episode, please go to
podcast dot PPC dot live to get

922
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,040
all those details.
Yes, PPC live events.

923
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,920
We had a fantastic PPC in person
event and by our next event is

924
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,600
going to be our in person event
is going to be in April, April

925
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,560
29th in Brighton, just before
Brighton SCO.

926
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,480
So we're really excited for
that.

927
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,960
We've already I've already
gotten speakers lined up.

928
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,600
Tickets are going to go to sell
on sale very soon.

929
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,960
So look out for that.
But yeah, keep in mind to join

930
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,360
us on April 29th and actually
already, so go to PC dot live to

931
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,680
figure out, find out whether you
can get your early bird ticket

932
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,320
sale.
And we're going to be doing 3

933
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,960
stages of the ticket sales this
time.

934
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,320
We're going to do early bird
sale.

935
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,560
We're going to do first ticket
sale release and final sale

936
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,560
release on the week of.
So because we really, it really

937
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,640
helps to plan to have people buy
their tickets in advance as

938
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,040
advanced as possible.
So if you're buying your ticket

939
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,000
at the last minute, it's going
to cost you the most.

940
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,880
So, yeah, make sure you're one
of the first to get your ticket

941
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,440
so that you can get it for the
cheapest possible price before I

942
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,520
leave you.
I'm also delighted to share that

943
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,720
I am taking on coaching clients.
And so yeah, just to help people

944
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:51,600
with their confidence to really
get involved in the industry and

945
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,680
know how to navigate it, whether
it's from, you know, a client

946
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,200
working with a client or working
with a manager or working with,

947
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,760
you know, an agency.
If you're the manager of an in

948
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,480
house brand.
Yeah, so let me know.

949
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,200
I've dealt with, I've, I've
worked in all those situations,

950
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,600
whether it's about matter of,
you know, asking for that

951
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:14,440
promotion or asking for that
salary in I, I can help you do

952
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:15,480
that.
So yeah, go to

953
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,960
themarketingannual.com to book a
discovery call with me.

954
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,560
It's going to be a free 15
minute call with me first to

955
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,040
figure out what it is that you
need so that I can plan our

956
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,360
conversations around the
specifics areas of interest that

957
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,000
that matter to you.
So, yeah.

958
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,400
So I hope you then enjoyed the
show and I look forward to

959
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,920
bringing more PPC efforts and
triumph next week.

960
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:37,800
Thank you.
Bye.