EP337 - The PPC Decision That Cost More Than Performance ft Amy Hebdon

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Hello and welcome to PPC Live,
the podcast.

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I'm your host Anu, the founder
of PPC Live.

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And if you're used to hearing
advice from PPC experts about

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how to ensure that we're keeping
up with the ever changing

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landscape, don't worry, you are
still in the right place.

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Every week I'm speaking to a
different PPC expert about their

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biggest effort this time.
So not just, you know, advice

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about what they're doing in the
accounts.

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It's the really interesting
stories that we go for here.

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We're sharing how the mistakes
happen, who has been, what has

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been disappointing, what was
expected, what was not expected.

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People were who are helpful and
people who were not.

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This week, I speak to the very
lovely Amy Hebden, who is an

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international speaker and, you
know, leads of fantastic agency,

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paid search magic.
Paid search magic.

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I knew that.
I definitely knew that.

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Yeah.
She leads the the paid search

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agency, paid search magic.
And yeah, she shares a couple of

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stories as well about, you know,
some mistakes that happened

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early in her career, how she
felt about it, you know, just

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things that she would do
differently so that you would

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make the missing mistake.
All right, let's go speak to

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Amy.
Hello, Amy.

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Welcome to PPC LIVE, the
podcast.

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Thanks so much for having.
Me.

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It's such a pleasure.
Yeah.

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Just before this, Amy and I were
chatting and we're talking about

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how she does so many amazing
talks.

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We met personally, was so lovely
last year at SMX Advanced.

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It was really great, her talks,
so one of the ones that people

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loved.
And she was like maybe saying

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that she might be taking a break
from speaking.

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And I'm really going to try and
convince her even after this to

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not do that because we really
need to hear from more experts

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like Amy, you've got such a
fantastic and unique

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perspective.
And actually, and this is a

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surprise, I wasn't going to say
this and I just remember this

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now.
I've got a special thanks to for

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Amy because when I started
working for Search Engine Land,

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you know, it was a new role to
me.

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And just out of the blue, I got
a LinkedIn message from you,

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Amy, just saying, I know I love
your articles and I love what

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you're doing.
I mean, and Oh my God, you know,

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when sometimes imposter syndrome
hits you and you just need to

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see that it's where someone that
has no ulterior motive just

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goes, you're doing a good job.
And that just meant everything

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to me.
So thank you very much for that.

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Well, thank you for all the work
you do over there.

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It's it's incredible.
Thank you.

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So yeah, I know my audience feel
like I know you do this all the

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time.
You just have chatting.

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You've not going to introduce us
to your guests.

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So let's introduce Amy.
Amy is a very much renowned,

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long going, long running paid
search expert who has decades of

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experience running results
driven SEM campaigns, trying to

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very much achieve aggressive
Cpas and CPLS across the

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Pharmaceutical industry,
financial services, tech,

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consumer, retail, restaurants,
hotels, etcetera.

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Has audited more than 100
accounts certified in Google

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Adwords, Analytics, Market
Motive, Maclabs.

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These are even brand names I
have not heard of.

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Has experienced in social media,
SEO, landing play testing,

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content marketing, display and
e-mail marketing.

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And I'm seeing even more of that
from PPC experts, especially the

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ones I really expect you to have
that wide variety of knowledge,

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which is very important,
especially with the whole AI

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world coming into of that whole
broad knowledge of knowing how

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the other channels work, even
though you specialise in paint

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search.
So really great one to see.

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Fun fact.
So Amy and her husband are going

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to be raising quail.
I have never heard of anyone who

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raises quail.
And how's your research going on

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to it on with that?
Are you, are you quite hopeful

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that you'll be able to get it
right?

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Yeah, I mean, apparently quails
kind of tend to have a death

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wish.
And so that's the scary thing is

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that they're they die very
easily.

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So we're trying to figure out
how to give them the best

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environment possible.
So that doesn't happen, but but

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we're excited to have them
because the Roosters are quiet,

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which means you can have male
quail as opposed to chickens

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where we can just have chickens
and not Roosters.

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And so can be a little more
self-sustaining that way, you

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know, you get smaller eggs.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, if you're going to go
out of your way to try to raise,

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you know, a new you're kind of
animal, you should do the

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research to make sure that you
know how to keep them alive.

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Because you were saying earlier
on that some people just write

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on Facebook by saying that they
just gave them some kind of food

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and they died and they don't
know what to do.

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You just, if you just buy an
animal like you, I don't know,

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buy a toy, they're like, oh, I
didn't figure it out.

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And so it died.
Like that's, that's way too high

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of a consequence.
Like you have to know what

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you're getting into.
Absolutely know what you're

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getting yourself into, which I
also said it's a very great

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translation of her skills and
paid search.

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She's all about knowing what
you're getting into and helping

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us do that as well.
And yeah, going on to what we're

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going to talk about next.
Like, you know, Amy proposed 2

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stories.
And I was like, the second one

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really grabbed my attention
because it was once one of those

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cases where it puts yourself in
a difficult position, even

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though you felt you were doing
the right thing at the time.

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And sometimes that's how
mistakes look like in that

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moment, you do think you're
doing the right thing and you're

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going to do the right thing by
your by your customer.

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So yeah, thank you so much, Amy,
for being able to share the

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story with us.
This is something that a lot of

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us, I'm sure what we'll learn
from.

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So yeah, please take it away.
Amy, what's the F up you'd like

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to share with us today?
Yeah, so it, like you said, it's

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something that at the time I
thought I was doing the right

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thing, but which was that we
were in a situation where the

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the creative team had decided to
run creative that really was not

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compatible with Google Ads
there.

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It was a gym, fitness Wellness,
I guess, a fitness centre gym

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and they were using a campaign.
What they were trying to promote

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was like really just like
bodybuilding and just they some

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creative that was not suitable
for it was not family safe,

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right?
And I mean it wasn't a big deal.

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It was like you wouldn't
necessarily look at it and say,

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oh, that's pornography, but
Google was Google was saying

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we're not going to run this
because, you know, it's exposing

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too much skin or whatever.
And then it was just kind of

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like people were a little glossy
and oiled up and whatever and

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they just didn't like it didn't
look like Jim to them.

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So we kept on not being able to
run the creative.

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And so this, you know, is a
continued problem throughout the

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campaign.
And so we'd be pushing back for

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the client.
But then the person who was our

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point of contact was very, very
junior person and just did not

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have the ability to manage or to
negotiate that situation.

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So he'd be like, well, the
creative team likes it, so run.

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It's like, OK, but we can't.
So one time we all had this big

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hands on where like, you know,
we're talking with the CEO, the

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C-Suite, the leadership team and
everyone was there and we were

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doing our report about here's
what's going on.

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And like, these are the people
where you have to say, here's

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what paid search even means,
right?

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Because they like, well, what's
the difference between that and

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SEO?
So everyone, you know, the

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higher ups are all there.
And so I'm like, here's I'm

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going to make my case about why
we can't have this creative

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running anymore.
And I did, you know, I was able

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to convince, you know, to get
the attention of the leadership

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team of like, this is not
appropriate.

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We need to rethink this strategy
because this doesn't work on

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Google.
So I thought, OK, I did what I

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needed to do.
But what actually happened is

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that the other team that was
producing all this creative,

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they did not share that opinion
that that was the right thing.

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They felt like I really threw
them under the bus.

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They went and talked with my
manager afterwards and had this

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special meeting and saying how I
was inappropriate.

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And it didn't like I didn't get
in trouble with my company, but

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I did absolutely like this was a
team that I would have liked to

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continue to work with.
Like they were good people.

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And I kind of burned that bridge
with them that they didn't like

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the way I handled it.
And so it was not the right

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approach.
Like I wasn't thinking through

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everything.
I was just trying to make get my

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point across, but kind of it
came at a cost.

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Yeah.
Oh, that's that's annoying.

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And at what point is was it
just, it wasn't months later or

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was it, was there a point even
maybe it was when the meetings

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were happening that made you
think, Oh no, I shouldn't have

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done that?
At what point did he really hit

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you that that wasn't the right
strategy to go ahead with?

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Well, I'll be honest, like
during the meeting, like they

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did not seem happy with what I
was saying and I didn't care

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because I knew, you know, that
was their response this whole

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time was like, you don't get to
dictate what creative does.

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I'm like, but I'm running the,
you know, like, there's no point

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in doing this creative that is
incompatible with Google.

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So the fact that they were like
pushing back, like I had known

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they would push back because
they they always had they always

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defended their choice, right,
because they had essentially the

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buy in of leadership because
leadership didn't know about

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this other issue.
But it wasn't until like they

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had scheduled this meeting with
my boss.

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I'm like, oh man, this isn't
just like a difference of

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opinion that got worked out.
This is like I just lost that

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chance to, you know, to work
with this other potential

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referrer of business that they
didn't want to work with me

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anymore.
OK, So were you taking off the

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accounts, you know?
No, no, I mean, because, you

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know, my, my team didn't really
care.

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Like they, they stood by me in
that decision, but it was, it

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was just that as far as my, my
relationship with the people on

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this other team was, you know,
compromised after that.

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Compromise, OK.
And did that affect any like

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future decisions or like any
recommendations you'd make where

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they would they then still take?
Would they take So you kept

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working on the account.
There are different decisions to

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be made about different
creatives after that.

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Did they pay more attention to
what you were doing or where

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they just where they would they
go around you for comms?

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How did they deal with the
situation in terms of working

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from you with you after that?
That's a good question.

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And at this point is like 9
years ago, so I'm trying to

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remember like if there are any
specific things, you know, it's

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more like what?
More like lost opportunities

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that I remember then like yeah,
that you know, like it came back

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to bite me.
I don't remember anything

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specific like that, but there
definitely could have been that.

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I just like thankfully blocked
out like I don't know about you,

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but like my mess ups keep me
like worried about it all

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through the night every night.
Like oh remember I did that dumb

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thing.
So if I'm able to forget

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something, thank goodness.
I know, I know, which is why I'm

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always so grateful when people
that you could come and share

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these stories because it's,
it's, it is that kind of thing

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that makes you think of God.
You can't believe you did that,

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but you've put it in the back
and you've moved on forward from

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it.
So yeah, this, this, this

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podcast, I don't know.
I do know it kind of brings a

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bit of PTSD for some people and
I feel like I need to apologise.

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And just to be clear, this is
not the worst thing that's ever

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happened.
This is just something that's

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different than maybe what your
listeners have.

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I've made a lot of mistakes.
Like you said, I had to choose

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which one to do.
It's not like 01 time.

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Someone got mad at me.
The end.

225
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:53,920
Like there's, there's real
stuff, right?

226
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,440
But but this is probably a
little bit different than the

227
00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:00,240
the normal like oh I messed up
on a setting or let something go

228
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,120
for too long.
And So what do you do?

229
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,400
What, what, what could you have
done differently?

230
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,200
Because it's this, this, this
whole podcast is about let's

231
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,280
learn from it.
You know what would?

232
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,280
What's the difference to do a
different approach you feel you

233
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,000
should have done in that case?
Yeah, I think I really should

234
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,880
have like considered my
stakeholders better.

235
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,760
You know, they are a
stakeholder.

236
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,480
They're not just someone I was
trying to like strong arm into

237
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,280
seeing things my way, like they
had buy in from someone else

238
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,960
who'd given them approval.
So what I should have done is

239
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,280
like work within, like, OK, they
have a different they have a

240
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,720
perspective on this.
I should have like been really,

241
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,000
really objective and considered
how potentially emotionally

242
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,000
charged it can be to say, Hey,
you're running porn, You know,

243
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,080
like that's not that's something
people are going to respond to.

244
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,960
But I don't necessarily need to
play that card.

245
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,360
You know, I could have, I could
have absolutely said, Hey,

246
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,640
here's why we can't run these,
you know, like run it up the

247
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,560
chain and you know, even in, in
the big meeting, just kind of be

248
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,920
very, very objective with it.
So here's the problems we're

249
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,320
handling it.
You know, I think the, the

250
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,640
creative team is doing a great
job.

251
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,160
What can we do to make sure that
the creatives we have to run and

252
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,320
the landing pages we have to run
for this are in compliance and

253
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,800
really focus on the compliance
part of it rather than saying

254
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,760
everyone's ignoring this thing
we have to do.

255
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,400
Like I could have been a lot
more just I, I'll say a better

256
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,240
sport about it.
You know, I could have taken a

257
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,200
better approach.
Interesting again, to be fair, I

258
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,760
think even with this kind of
mistakes, they're, they're nice

259
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,520
positives to get out of it.
Like I, I picked up in fact,

260
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,160
that you said that your team
were still on your side.

261
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,800
They really like they were
behind you.

262
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,560
They understood why you, you,
you gave that advice.

263
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,360
How did that make you feel?
And why is why is having someone

264
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,240
in your corner and those kind of
moments kind of important?

265
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,360
I mean, if they hadn't, like, if
they'd just been like, it would

266
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,160
have really surprised me because
they hadn't said anything up

267
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,920
until then.
And so if they're like, oh,

268
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,040
someone else had this reaction,
so now we're going to think, you

269
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,400
know, because they're all in the
room with me.

270
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,520
And so now we're going to have a
problem with it.

271
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,040
I would have, I would have felt
a little bit less of their

272
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,400
willingness to like have my
back, you know, if it changed

273
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,920
the minute someone else said
something.

274
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,680
But I mean, they are, they're
pretty consistent.

275
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,880
So that was nice.
It's nice to have that.

276
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,120
It's nice to have that
consistent support, support.

277
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,840
Do you, do you feel that it was
in a way, I mean like it's not

278
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,120
even necessarily about the fact
that they knew that you were

279
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,480
given the right advice, but also
in terms of the fact that the

280
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,800
way you went about it, did any
of your team question you in

281
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,080
terms of like, look, Amy, we
know why you gave that advice,

282
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,480
but we should have done it XYZ
because obviously they had

283
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,360
meetings with your manager kind
of thing and your managers took

284
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,480
those meeting.
Was there any feedback that the

285
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,120
manager then gave to you for
what you could have done

286
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,960
differently?
No.

287
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,920
And I didn't get any feedback
from them.

288
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,880
So like, I honestly, I felt
vindicated.

289
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,400
I felt like, well, what I did
was fine.

290
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,240
It wasn't until like later, you
know, years later.

291
00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:00,280
I mean, it was I felt bad that
like, oh, that's too bad that my

292
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,200
my correct decision resulted in
this burn bridge, right.

293
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,520
That's kind of how I saw it at
the time.

294
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,680
It wasn't until later.
I'm like, you know, I didn't

295
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:07,960
have to have taken that
approach.

296
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,720
I could have gone about it
differently and probably got the

297
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,200
same result.
And I mean, at a certain point,

298
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,640
I think you do have to decide to
escalate something and you do

299
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,280
have to say, am I willing to
burn this bridge?

300
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,280
Am I willing to collide it all
on fire?

301
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,840
Yeah.
And I would say often that

302
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,200
answer should be no.
Like you need to really have a

303
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,360
good justification for it, for
that answer to yes, because we

304
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,360
always think we're right.
We always think it's all just

305
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,080
about the account.
And a lot of times it is about

306
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,680
relationships and not just the
account.

307
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,360
So the better you can be, the
more tactful, the more

308
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,440
empathetic you can be about
communicating that, the more

309
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,600
skilled you are in getting it to
happen anyway, right?

310
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,400
You don't have to nuclear or
whatever.

311
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,600
Yeah, I mean, people have gotten
more nuclear and pastors I've

312
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,800
heard where it has ended in
properly burnt bridges and yeah,

313
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,200
firing and and and leaving the
job.

314
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,320
But in a way, you know, are you
are you happy that you stayed on

315
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,800
with that company?
I mean, because I don't know, I

316
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,160
sometimes do, you know, you
think we spoke about the fact

317
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,040
that sometimes you make a
mistake and sometimes you just

318
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,640
wish you could be like, OK, let
me just leave because I'm never

319
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,720
going to come back from this.
And the whole environment is a

320
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,080
little bit.
Or was it just what they're like

321
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,120
one of the other clients you
work on?

322
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,120
So it didn't, it didn't take up
a lot all of your time.

323
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,280
Yeah, it was.
It was one of probably 8 clients

324
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,920
I had at the time.
It wasn't a big deal.

325
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,200
Yeah, yeah.
OK, cool.

326
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,800
Actually we have time for this.
I know you spoke about actually

327
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,160
2 two things that you were going
to bring up.

328
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,680
Can we also bring up that that
second mistake that you you

329
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,200
talked about, is that OK about
how there was an account that

330
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,640
didn't go very closely?
Yeah.

331
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,640
So, so this this is about, this
is before I was working at that

332
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,280
company.
So this is like we're looking at

333
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,600
1213 years ago now.
Yeah, I was doing contract work

334
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,800
for one company that I was
moving states to start working

335
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,000
for a different company and I
just had a lot going on.

336
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,680
I was like got engaged at the
time.

337
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,200
There's this like a lot of stuff
was happening and then one of

338
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,560
the accounts that I was working
on, there was someone else who

339
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,640
was working on it too.
And it was like a low touch, low

340
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,320
maintenance accounts.
They took the other person off.

341
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,080
They're like, OK, Amy, you're in
charge of it this month.

342
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,800
OK, great.
But then nothing like nothing

343
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,360
happened with it.
I didn't check in on it like I

344
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,240
didn't bill them.
I want to be really clear about

345
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:23,560
this.
This is not a case where I said,

346
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,000
hey, I worked on it for a bunch
of time.

347
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,680
I didn't, I like did not bill
them for anything for that

348
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,320
client because I didn't work on
it at all.

349
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,960
And then like 2/3 through the
month, like probably the 20th,

350
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,160
we got a notice that it was one
of those accounts that had an

351
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,040
insertion order like where where
you had to have like a signed

352
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,000
insertion order every so often
in order for like to be able to

353
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,240
spend.
It was like a really weird kind

354
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,840
of archaic setup.
But the insertion order had

355
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,200
expired and I hadn't gotten a
notice about it.

356
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,160
And so like nothing had to run
for like that far into the

357
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,240
month.
And so like I didn't say

358
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,080
anything header on, but like, I
should have been so much more

359
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,160
accountable for that than I was.
I just like kind of putting

360
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,920
hours in and like, you know,
whatever.

361
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,800
And I didn't, I hadn't taken
care of that.

362
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,680
And so because the other person
was off of the account, it was

363
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,319
just on me.
It was like 100% my mistake.

364
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:15,119
And it looked, it looked bad.
You know that because the client

365
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,560
was still charging, like my
client, the agency was still

366
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,359
charging their client for
management and like, no

367
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,640
management had gone into it.
And yeah, so it was not good.

368
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,200
So did that result in drop in
performance?

369
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,200
If so, that means the account
wasn't running during a period

370
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,360
of time.
At what point did the client

371
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:39,440
then figure it out and go, well,
what's what's what's happened

372
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,320
during this time period?
I mean, it wasn't until the end

373
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,480
of the month like the client it,
it was OK.

374
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:52,120
It was a lower touch client, but
they were very hands off like

375
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,280
this.
This is one of those like they

376
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,280
had no idea what was happening
within this particular part of

377
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,280
the business until they got a
report like two months later

378
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,440
that told them.
And then there was some, there

379
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,480
was like a woman whose entire
job it was to put together the

380
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,360
report and it took her like a
month, you know?

381
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,160
And so it wasn't like they were
like seeing sales go up or down.

382
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,880
It was just like, by the way,
how?

383
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,760
And so the fact that it hadn't
spent indicated that it hadn't

384
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,120
been managed.
That was really the only thing

385
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:21,440
It wasn't, it didn't affect our
business really.

386
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,520
I know it sounds weird, but like
it was not like it was.

387
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,400
It was a very indirect
relationship between what was

388
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,680
going on in paid search and what
their actual business is doing.

389
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,000
OK, OK, cool.
So they still made their sales

390
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,360
target that didn't make too much
of a huge difference like how

391
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,840
did you so and you are the one
that figured it out or was it

392
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,840
like the your contact that was
like, wait, what's going on

393
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,960
here?
You know, I honestly don't

394
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,000
remember how it came up.
They might have figured it out

395
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,360
when they got like this
insertion order and like, hey,

396
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,520
this thing needs to be resigned
or else I got it.

397
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,240
I was like, oh, wait, that means
it hasn't been running.

398
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,160
Like if it might have been like
my Google Rep, like reached out

399
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,040
to me.
It's like, hey, this thing

400
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,200
needs, you know, like we're
flagging it now, three weeks

401
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,160
later, one of those things.
OK.

402
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,520
So I'm like, how long a period
was it offline for?

403
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,160
It was, it was probably like 3
weeks, they could say.

404
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:11,880
And it's somewhere between like
3 weeks and the whole month and

405
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,360
somewhere around there, like
where it's like not just like,

406
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,400
Oh yeah, we missed it.
But it was two days later, you

407
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,160
know, it was like the majority
of the month had passed when we

408
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:19,960
caught it.
Yeah.

409
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,960
So what's your big lesson from
from that one?

410
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,560
What would you advice ways to
avoid avoid things like that?

411
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,200
I mean, I was just, I like
looking back, I'm like, how is

412
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,120
that me doing that?
Because like it's, it's so it's

413
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,040
so weird that I just felt no
accountability for like the

414
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,520
management of it.
Like if I remember right, I

415
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,200
didn't report directly to the
client.

416
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,720
I was just like doing this back
end stuff.

417
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,880
They had like a different like
client manager that reported.

418
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,480
I just, I think I just felt too
removed from the process and so

419
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,840
I'll help out or whatever, but
like I would never ever do that,

420
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,840
you know what I mean?
Like that's and what they did is

421
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,640
they're like, all right, well,
we need to manage this better

422
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,000
because.
To their point, I mean, they

423
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,640
also dropped the ball, right?
They didn't have anyone actually

424
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,000
on their team that was able to
do it, which is why they're

425
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,360
subcontracting this out.
They didn't do any throat check

426
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,080
insurance or anything.
So they should have been a lot

427
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,560
more accountable too.
I mean, both of us, like, I'm

428
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,600
not trying to excuse what I did
at all, but like when you

429
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,920
subcontract with someone, you
have to have a check in at some

430
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,400
point, you know, like that needs
to be going on.

431
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,400
So then they got to be like
really, really particular with

432
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,360
OK, here, here's our new like,
you know, guardrails and like

433
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,800
every single week we had to
like, say, here's how many

434
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,880
impressions they got, here's how
many clicks just so they could

435
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,920
like make sure something was
running, running.

436
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,920
So I mean, and fair enough, like
it was a little overkill, but

437
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,760
you know, they didn't know how
to do anything else.

438
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,200
And so that's what because they
didn't know paid search versus

439
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,520
again, why they had to outsource
it.

440
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,560
So I was like reporting them all
these dumb numbers like with

441
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,560
weekly calls and stuff, but.
Yeah, yeah, those are the days.

442
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,760
Those are the days of your
career when you're literally

443
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,080
like, you know, you wish you
were.

444
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,040
It's not just about the paid
search person's knowledge.

445
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,000
It's about the people managing
and knowing how paid search

446
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,560
works with the other channels
and knowing what they should be

447
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,840
hearing from it.
It's almost how I even see that,

448
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,400
how we need to be working with
AI, about how if you don't

449
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,880
understand what good quality
information is, AI can give you

450
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,640
any bunch of nonsense and you
just be like, well, it's AI.

451
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,520
So yeah, copy and paste and
you've got to be careful not to

452
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,320
be the kind of person that does
that.

453
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,360
So rounding up this part of the
story, we're going to move on to

454
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,320
talking about other mistakes
that you've seen in our

455
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,720
industry.
But before we do that, what's

456
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,200
your what's your take away that
you want to leave our audience

457
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,160
with?
I mean, everyone makes mistakes

458
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,440
and hopefully the further along
in your career they, the easy it

459
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,840
becomes to look back on it and
not feel like that defines you

460
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,520
because it doesn't need to.
But it's hard at the moment to

461
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,720
feel like not defined by
something because you probably

462
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,920
define yourself by being really
good and not making those

463
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,760
mistakes when you do.
It's really hard, but it does,

464
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,200
it does get easier the more
distance there is.

465
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,600
And it's just part of the
growing process and everyone,

466
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,880
everyone does it.
Absolutely.

467
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,760
Exactly.
And that's the thing everyone

468
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,400
does is the best of us have made
mistakes.

469
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,040
That's where you how you get
your best learnings.

470
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,600
That's how you know what
guardrails to put in place.

471
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,440
And so it's not, there's no
point really like just going

472
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,440
over it and mullet over it too
long.

473
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,960
Just try to learn from it, I'd
say and just move on.

474
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,320
But things that people and our
advertisers may not have moved

475
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,240
on from in terms of what you
might have seen and accounts

476
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,320
that you've audited.
You say you've audited quite a

477
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,760
lot of campaigns and accounts.
What are some of of those big

478
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,640
mistakes that you, you regularly
see that especially in the

479
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,840
middle of let's say 20252026 is
still very young, but like in

480
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,360
2025, you feel that we should
still really should not be doing

481
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:47,800
this.
Yeah.

482
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,040
What are your some of your
favourite mistakes, let's say?

483
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,640
I feel like the biggest mistake
is that people are so tactic

484
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,760
focused in what needs to be a
strategy and an objective driven

485
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,480
field, right?
Like it's like, what should my

486
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,720
bid be?
It's like, who cares?

487
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,480
What is your landing page?
Oh, I don't know, like what like

488
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,320
we need to be like, so focused
on what, you know, what the the

489
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,160
searcher needs, like what the
goal is of the account.

490
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,920
How well does the landing page
solve that problem?

491
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,000
You know, like how, what's the,
what's the whole sequence of

492
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,800
conversion?
And it's just so easy to focus

493
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,000
on.
Like, well, let me just get the

494
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,160
right the right little setting
set up and then that's it.

495
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,680
It's like you can have that all
be great and still not get

496
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,960
conversions because they're
missing like this huge other

497
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,600
part.
And that's I see that over and

498
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,520
over and over again.
It's like we're in the weeds of

499
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,920
something.
But what's it's, it's that

500
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,440
Stephen Covey quote, you know,
where like, the manager is like

501
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,240
getting people to like chop down
trees.

502
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,640
And it's the leader that climbs
up the tree and looks around,

503
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,000
says, hey, we're in the wrong
jungle.

504
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,680
Like anyone can have someone
like, you know, using machetes

505
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,920
to chop down a tree, but are you
chopping down the right trees?

506
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,480
Like it's just yeah, versus in
the wrong headspace a lot of the

507
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,360
time.
Yeah, absolutely.

508
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,520
I think like in a lot of like,
especially when a lot of people

509
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,600
started getting into consultancy
and it kind of work, I feel it

510
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,000
was easier to sell like your
tactical skills, like I, you

511
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,280
know, I'm great with
optimizations.

512
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,280
I know all the updates that are
going on in Google ads and that

513
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,040
kind of thing.
And sometimes I feel sometimes

514
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,560
it's harder to sell what your
strategic capabilities are kind

515
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,000
of thing, which is which it's
now that's an A skill is in

516
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,320
itself being able to sell what
matters to people.

517
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,600
But it's definitely very much
more important that we do that

518
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,080
because especially with AI,
taking all the, you know,

519
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,160
especially like the easy
tactical stuff away, you know,

520
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,360
what is left for you to do if
you're not, if you've not sold

521
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,520
what your strategic capabilities
are.

522
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,760
So like going into like, you
know, specifically with AI, what

523
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,200
are some of the most of the
biggest mistakes that you see?

524
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,080
Well, I think, I think you just
kind of hit on it when you just

525
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,280
could have AI produce anything.
You're like, sounds good.

526
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600
AI wrote it right.
Like there this thing that is

527
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,600
kind of always in my head is
this Ted talk that I heard a

528
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,760
while ago that was someone
saying, how does it feel to be

529
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:04,960
wrong?
And people like, oh, it's

530
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,520
embarrassing.
Oh, it's, you know, shameful or

531
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,040
whatever.
And like, no, that's how it

532
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,680
feels to find out that you were
wrong, being wrong, it feels

533
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,080
exactly the same as being right.
And when you have AI give you an

534
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,880
answer like that sounds right,
like it's designed to create

535
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,320
something like, yeah, that
sounds right.

536
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,600
It could be 100% wrong, but it
feels right because that's what

537
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,280
it's trying to do, is to give
you something that sounds like

538
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,840
it could be the right answer.
So the more you know about a

539
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,800
subject, the more you're going
to be able to poke holes and

540
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,680
what you get or say, hey, yeah,
this is actually really good, or

541
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,360
no, it's not.
But if you don't know anything

542
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,360
like that sounds right, And then
you don't even know how far it

543
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,360
is, how removed it is from like
any sort of source of truth, you

544
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,240
know?
Yeah, absolutely.

545
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,160
No, that's a very fairpoint.
Like it's the feeling, the

546
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,800
finding out, the feeling of
finding out that you're wrong is

547
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,280
what annoys us.
Like even like your, the stories

548
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,520
that you shared when you were
shared, when you were doing the

549
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,880
thing you were doing, telling,
like, you know, in that meeting,

550
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,440
saying that no, the creator is
wrong.

551
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,120
You know, you were doing the
right thing in that moment.

552
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:08,320
It's finding out that you went
about it the wrong way that made

553
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,960
you then go up, you know, and
there's there's such a

554
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,080
difference because we don't, we
never think we're wrong.

555
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,840
I think I've definitely had
meetings with people when when

556
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,800
like, I feel like it's someone
who's like, my manager is more

557
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,520
silly to me.
And they're asking me like, you

558
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,440
know, So what should you have
done different than like, if I

559
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,040
knew, I'd already be in the
shame spiral right now.

560
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,640
I know how it feels.
I have no idea that the things

561
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,080
I've been doing are so wrong.
Can you tell me what has been

562
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,880
wrong so that I can change it?
So, yeah, some of those meetings

563
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,400
that with managers need to be
better and just straight to the

564
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,920
point and stop making it a
minefield of like, guess what

565
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,320
you did wrong.
I'm like, everything.

566
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,400
I think I've done everything
wrong.

567
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,800
Can you just tell me which one
it is?

568
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,240
Because, yeah, the imposter
syndrome can be strong, can be

569
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,600
strong in our minds if we're not
careful.

570
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,880
But even talk what I also like
talking about in terms of like,

571
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,360
these kind of situations.
Have you managed people before?

572
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

573
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,440
You've you've married teens.
Like what has been your

574
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,480
experience with people who have
made mistakes?

575
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,040
Dumb they what's your being
experience?

576
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,960
Do they tend to hide it away or
are they more open about it?

577
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,920
I mean, it totally depends on
the person.

578
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,920
It's easier to work with people
who, like own up for it.

579
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,840
I think a lot of people don't
like to.

580
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,120
And like, before they'll tell
you what happened, they'll like

581
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,400
come up with a list of five
reasons, like kind of five

582
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200
excuses like, well, yeah, I
mean, that's that's kind of

583
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,640
human nature.
But it's just easier.

584
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,960
And it's like, all right, here's
here's what happened and how

585
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,280
we're going to fix it.
I think that that's one thing

586
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,560
that I had to, I mean, we all
have to learn, but like I had

587
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,000
this really good manager whose
whole thing was like, the whole

588
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,080
point of this is for us to be
able to accomplish this thing,

589
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,680
right?
Like to work on this account.

590
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,200
So if you know that you don't
have the bandwidth, if something

591
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,840
comes up, like let me know so
that we can solve for it, right?

592
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,040
Like everything is about like
how we're going to solve for

593
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,400
this together.
And it's not like, did you meet

594
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,800
this requirement, yes or no?
It's like how we're going to

595
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,320
make bring this thing to to
pass.

596
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,680
And that was it was so
interesting because I just

597
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
hadn't had managers like that
before in my career where

598
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,120
they're focused on like the
bigger goal, not just like, did

599
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:18,320
you do your part, yes or no?
And like you get in trouble for

600
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:20,160
it.
Yeah, absolutely.

601
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,200
And and that goes into straight
into like the question I do like

602
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,600
to ask about what's the, what's
your advice to managers, to

603
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,920
their team or to the people who
reported to them and to how they

604
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,080
should approach mistakes?
And why is it important to

605
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,360
especially make it clear that,
you know, mistakes will happen

606
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,440
and actually to scale them
through the process?

607
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,480
Is it for the person being
managed to figure out and do it

608
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,160
the right way?
Or can managers do something to

609
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,280
ensure that they instil a level
of, you know, being accountable,

610
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,560
the person being accountable and
saying, OK, I'm going to report

611
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,360
it.
I'm going to say what happens?

612
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,560
How can managers help in those
processes?

613
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,800
Yeah, I think, I think it is
just about emphasising the

614
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,360
importance of it being like a
like a literal team effort and

615
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,720
not not just like an individual
thing where you are pass or

616
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,880
fail, but like we're all working
together on this.

617
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,960
And how can we like redistribute
the workload if needed or how

618
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,040
can we all support each other
and everyone kind of working for

619
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,600
that common goal as opposed to
just like, well, you messed up.

620
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,120
And I'm like keeping tabs on
that, you know?

621
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,880
Yeah.
Yeah, no.

622
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,840
And what's your advice to our
LinkedIn community who never

623
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,560
share their mistakes?
I mean, it's scary to share

624
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,520
mistakes.
And so like, I think you have to

625
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,080
figure out if there's a benefit
for it.

626
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,640
Like you'll see most people who
share mistakes, it's like what

627
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,440
happened a long time ago.
I mean, same with me.

628
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,080
I didn't tell you something that
I did last week that was dumb.

629
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,400
I'm telling you about something
that happened 10 years ago that

630
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,400
was dumb because it's, it's just
easier.

631
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,120
Like for everything that's not
paid search specific, right?

632
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,720
We have an easier time having a
better perspective about it the

633
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,480
more time has passed.
Yeah, absolutely.

634
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,440
No, I totally agree with you.
And because I, I want to do this

635
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,080
for our, our guests of January
at the beginning of the year

636
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,720
2026, we're going to have
another year of maybe, you know,

637
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,360
2 updates a week that we're
going to try to wrap our heads

638
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,760
around.
What's your prediction for this

639
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,200
year as to how Google is going
to, you know, what they're going

640
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,080
to push towards?
It's probably going to be AI.

641
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,200
But like, what do you think that
people should really be look out

642
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,440
for and prepare for for 2026?
Gosh, I don't know.

643
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,320
I'm, I think, I think at a macro
level, if you watch what

644
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,800
Google's doing, like they, they
haven't really changed tactics

645
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,320
since I want to say like 2017.
It's just more of the same,

646
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,840
right?
Like they got on this trajectory

647
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,040
and they're still on that
trajectory snowballing, but it

648
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,320
didn't change course, right?
So we're still going there.

649
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,920
So it's still just how can they
get more money from you?

650
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,800
How can they take away controls
that you might use to benefit

651
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,400
your clients?
Because we have two different

652
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,000
objectives.
We're trying to be more

653
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,400
efficient and they're trying to
drive more, more click volume,

654
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,760
more costs, right.
And so just being aware like we

655
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,960
do not share a goal.
So everything they do that is

656
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,400
for their goal and not mine.
I'm going to opt out of like

657
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,960
that to me is like the most
important thing.

658
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,960
It's like, hey, how can I try
every beta?

659
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,760
You know, how can I sit reps all
the time?

660
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,440
Like just kind of going in
there.

661
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,600
What is your objective?
Does this help your objective?

662
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,520
No, no thanks.
You know, I don't care how many

663
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,600
updates you do.
I'm not going to just like opt

664
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,040
in because there's more.
You do come across as very level

665
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,040
headed as someone who's not just
flying with the wind with every

666
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,080
new updates.
And I definitely feel that we

667
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,240
need more people like that.
And that is should be our

668
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,320
biggest advice for our audience
trying not to be getting too

669
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,280
excited with every every single
post.

670
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,440
For me, it's what annoys me is
that I know it's the strategy of

671
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,920
some experts to be like, look, I
find out about this update first

672
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,520
major updates and they're
getting all flashy with the

673
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,920
pictures that they're putting
together.

674
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,000
And like, guys, not everybody,
not every 30,000 of your always

675
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,040
needs this updates in their
life, you know?

676
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,520
So yeah, we're afraid.
We feel like we doesn't, we

677
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,920
sensationalise a lot of things,
which, yeah, if you're working

678
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,720
for the target of your client
and you're meeting those

679
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,360
targets, you just need to stay
the course on that.

680
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,560
And not every beta is going to
move you in the right direction.

681
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,800
So, right, we've all got to be
careful.

682
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,880
Right.
Thank you so much Amy.

683
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,920
This has been such a fantastic
chat and such great learnings

684
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,720
from someone so, so experienced
as yourself.

685
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,240
So thank you so much for that
and taking the time to do this.

686
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,840
One last question and nice fun.
No, no, no PPC kind of thing.

687
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,400
If your PPC career were a movie,
what would the title be?

688
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,960
So my answer to this is a little
bit cheeky, but it's practical

689
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,240
magic because so, so my business
is paid search magic, right?

690
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,440
And that is just based on like
when, when I was really like

691
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,240
when I started my business.
And this is like back in 2015.

692
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,040
I want to say that like I came
up with the name of another

693
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,400
couple years before, like left
and made it my own thing.

694
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,480
But I still had this kind of
thing where it was just like, I

695
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,400
just felt like the results you
can get from paid searchers like

696
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,880
magical, like you control these
settings and levers.

697
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,000
You can do all stuff to
optimise, to do more of what's

698
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,000
working and less of what's not.
You could just get these like

699
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,440
magical results and it was like
so amazing to be able to create

700
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,720
that where everything else is
like a much longer game and

701
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,040
whatever.
So like that magic component I

702
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,200
really held onto.
But at the same time, there are

703
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,040
definitely times or I have to
say, well, you know, it's not

704
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,160
magic, you know, like people who
just like expect instant results

705
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,480
or whatever.
It's like, it's so deeply based

706
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,880
in strategy and like there's
tech and art and science and

707
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,360
everything.
But like there's, there's a real

708
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,160
practical side of it.
We're not just going to be able

709
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,440
to like 10X something overnight,
or I mean, sometimes you can if

710
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,680
it was a really, really bad, you
can 10X it.

711
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,920
But but for the most part, we do
need, we need a real clear

712
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,840
strategy and not, it's not just
going to be some sort of magic.

713
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,800
So practical magic, I think is
probably a good combination of

714
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,480
words that would describe my
career.

715
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,160
Absolutely, I totally really
enjoyed that explanation and I

716
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,480
cuz genuinely when cuz when I
first started my career in like

717
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,960
this, like 2008, like I started
with a little bit of a stint in

718
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,320
SEO and I found it especially
way back then, it was very

719
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,719
basic.
We're not all these, you know,

720
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,760
tech, you know, companies that I
helped you really, you know,

721
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,360
position.
So it was all about, I'll, I'll

722
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,800
speak to the web web admin for a
different site and like, can you

723
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,880
know, can you put a link of my
client on yours?

724
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,800
It was very salesy.
I hated it.

725
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,880
And then maybe after three
months, I went to another job, a

726
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,199
job interview and they were
like, yeah, you can do this paid

727
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:40,600
search.
And I, the more I learnt about

728
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,760
it, you'll write an ad and you
see your ad like 2 minutes.

729
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,159
And I was like, that felt like
magic.

730
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,719
That felt like, whoa, that's so
immediate.

731
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,440
Obviously the performance is not
immediate.

732
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,320
We tell people like, you know,
mix around.

733
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,840
But yeah, been able to just see
that whole, you know, you can

734
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,880
see it straight away.
And that's why I also feel like

735
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,320
SCO PC should really work well
to each other because you can

736
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,760
test things a lot quicker on
page search and then know

737
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,000
whether you put the efforts in
into SEO.

738
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,600
You have the breadth of the
knowledge of the digital

739
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,640
marketing channel.
So that's that's not something I

740
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,600
need to tell you.
I'm sure you're fully aware of

741
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,720
that.
So, yeah, that that's I think,

742
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:18,160
yeah, practical magic for for
your career.

743
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,480
That that sounds fantastic.
So, yeah, this has been such a

744
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,760
great chat.
Thank you so much, Amy, again

745
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,160
for joining us.
And before we leave our

746
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,800
audience, where can people find
you talking and giving some

747
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,640
like, you know, some of your
amazing advice on the different

748
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,360
platforms?
So paid search magic, you can go

749
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,360
there, sign up for my
newsletter.

750
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,880
I usually will share things that
way.

751
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,520
I'm not the best at social
media.

752
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,440
Like every year I feel like I'm
like, this is the year I'm going

753
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,360
to do it and I'm like, I'd still
prefer not No thanks.

754
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,400
I'll lurk sometimes but I'll
post like never if you.

755
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,840
Ever post if?
What's the one platform people

756
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,680
should probably maybe expect to
hear?

757
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,640
I mean, let's say LinkedIn
because where else?

758
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,360
I know it used to be Twitter and
then that just became a bit of,

759
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,480
my God, a hellscape.
So yeah, no, I totally

760
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,800
understand.
Well, that has been a fantastic,

761
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:10,800
great chat.
We'll show it.

762
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,240
We'll share all the links for,
you know, paid search magic.

763
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:17,080
And yeah, Amy's LinkedIn.
And you can just look and see

764
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,040
whether she comes out with any
brilliant insight to 2026.

765
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,960
Who knows, even if it's just
one, who knows, we might, we'll

766
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,760
be a fantastic one to take away
with.

767
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,360
So thank you so much, Amy.
And that's been a great chat.

768
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:28,360
Thanks.
Thanks so much.

769
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:28,600
Cheers.
Bye.

770
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,920
Thank you so much, Amy, for
sharing that very honest and

771
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,920
transparent, transparent
retelling of that story of, of

772
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,120
something that that, like all of
us, would feel very

773
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,360
heartbreaking to even relive or
to think back back again.

774
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,960
And that's really why I'm so
grateful to all our speakers.

775
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,320
It's not just that they're
brave, but something that

776
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,760
they're willing to go back and
retelling even though, yeah,

777
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,360
they know that they've come
through out of it.

778
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,800
They know their success now.
But still just thinking about

779
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,440
that mistake and just make all
your your arms tingle and not

780
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,680
the nice way at all.
So, yeah, remember that, you

781
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,320
know, the longer it goes, the
the longer the time goes, the

782
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,600
less you feel so bad about that
mistake.

783
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,160
And sometimes it might be the
right thing to do.

784
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,640
And it was similar to, you know,
Anthony Higman's, you know,

785
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,480
lesson.
It might be the right thing to

786
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,920
do, but you might be done the
wrong way.

787
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,600
So you just need to watch out
for that and make sure you get

788
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,240
advice or even from someone else
to ensure that you're

789
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,040
approaching things the right
way.

790
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,680
All the information and the full
transcript of that fantastic

791
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,200
show.
Please go to podcast dot PPC dot

792
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,240
live.
So yeah, another PPC live event

793
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,760
update as I do usually tickets
are live.

794
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,320
Tickets are still live.
Please go to PPC dot live.

795
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,200
Please don't live it till last
minutes.

796
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,280
I know a lot of folks kind of
make their mind up the Monday of

797
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,920
the week of, you know, the week
that they want to go to an

798
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,800
event.
And I do get that, you know,

799
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,920
post Christmas can be a little
bit bank balance draining.

800
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,240
So yeah, I totally, you know, I
understand, but yeah, it's only

801
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,440
£50 for a ticket.
Lots of other events are like in

802
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,600
the 405 hundred, 600,000 pounds,
£50 to see an international

803
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,040
speaker like like Neils Rusman
as well as Cat Sail and Dave

804
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Alexander, both part of agencies
who are that are award-winning.

805
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,080
So they're going to give advice.
The stock that is working

806
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,000
there's winning them awards.
So you need to be there.

807
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,640
You want to be there.
That's on the 5th of February.

808
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,600
Go to PPC dot live to get
tickets for that before I leave

809
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,240
you.
Yes, again, I'm also delighted

810
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:38,480
to share that I am taking on
coaching clients, PPC mindset

811
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,280
coaching clients.
So, yeah, just go to

812
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,000
themarketingannual.com to book a
time with me to discuss

813
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,360
challenges you're facing, how
what you want to get out of this

814
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,720
year.
You know that promotion that you

815
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,040
want to get that pay rise, you
want to get that new job, you

816
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,920
want to get that manager, you
want to get off your back, Sir,

817
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:59,360
anything that may might relate
to you ensuring that you this

818
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,520
year is your best year for your
career.

819
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,160
Yeah, let's talk about that.
Get in touch with me.

820
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,600
Go to themarketingannual.com to
book a free 15 minute discovery

821
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,160
call so that we can discuss what
is going to work for you.

822
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,200
Alright, Thank you so much for
listening to that.

823
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,080
And yeah, I hope you join us
next week for more talking about

824
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,920
Triumphs and F Hubs from PC
experts.

825
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,800
Thank you very much.
Bye.