EP329 - Fired from My First PPC Job ft Jack Hepp

Anu Adegbola (00:04)
Hello and welcome to PPC Live the podcast. My name is Anu, the founder of PPC Live. And if you're used to hearing advice from PPC experts about how to ensure that we're keeping up with the ever changing landscape, don't worry. You are still in the right place. But instead of me relaying what the PPC experts are saying, I'm bringing the PPC experts to you. Every week I'm going to be speaking to a different PPC expert about their biggest F up and how they turn things around. So.

we never leave things on a disappointed notes. show you that no matter how bad things get, you can put on your thinking hat on, have a, a deep breath and figure out a solution and still become a international expert and, ⁓ someone that is sought after for their paid search knowledge. And this week, yes, we speak to someone who has seen the worst of what could happen with an F up. speak to Harrison Jack Hepp.

⁓ he goes by Jack and we'll talk about that in the episode, but yeah, we, we speak about a worst case scenario of what could happen with a hiccup. But then he's now in a position where he's a consultant. He's well sought after in the industry. His knowledge on LinkedIn is amazing. It's the kind of knowledge that you want to be taking notes on. So yeah, we speak to Jack about how there was a hiccup, but that did not stop him being

One of the best in his field. So yeah, let's go speak to Jack.

Anu Adegbola (01:30)
Hello Jack, welcome to PPC Live the podcast.

Jack Hepp (01:33)
Thanks for having me out, I appreciate it.

Anu Adegbola (01:34)
Um, my pleasure. Um, yeah, it's one of those situations where I'm so glad that I traveled to go to conferences and I don't think Jack and I, we've, I've followed Jack's, you know, people, loads of several people, the likes of Jyll and Ameet has recommended you for the things that you talk about or, or reshared one of your posts. So I've met you like, you know, I've known of your work in that way, but then I went to, came to Brighton SEO in San Diego and

you know, the hero conf and yeah, our PPC folks, we all gathered and met loads of folks and yeah, but from that, you're now the second person. ⁓ like from that group of people, I'm like, I need to get on the podcast. It's been such a joy. That's how so, but people who are running podcasts, how do you get guests? Go to conferences, meet people and then ask them to be on your podcast. think it's a great, it's a great way.

Jack Hepp (02:24)
Right?

It's still so much better when you meet him in person too. Like even if you followed somebody online forever, like, or, even, you know, like DM to stuff like that. Like once you meet him in person, like totally different.

Anu Adegbola (02:38)
It makes all the difference for sure. So who's Jack? So, um, Jack has a very lovely conversational introduction to himself, even on his LinkedIn. And, you know, he starts off by answering the question of how he ended up managing paid search and social. And it was back in 2015 where he joined his first agency out of college, which we're going to come to later. Um, and not long after that, um, you know, they needed someone to help manage digital marketing. So they turned to him and said, Hey, you're a.

millennial, you understand this stuff, right? And yeah, as they say, the rest is history. So Jack specializes in managing lead gen accounts and has a lot of experiences with industrial and service based businesses, especially his experiences across industries have helped him to audit accounts and help businesses save money and find new opportunities to succeed. And save money is a big one with Google and the CPC is always just ever increasing.

So his passion is, you know, helping small businesses and local businesses succeed through Google ads by providing even mentoring, coaching and training services. So any of you are thinking that's right off your streets. Yeah. DM Jack for that. And yeah, I call, I, I'm going to be referring to Jack as Jack, but you might go on his LinkedIn. I'd be a bit confused now, Jack, tell us why.

Jack Hepp (04:00)
So I ever since I was a kid, I've gone by my middle name, Jack. So my first name is actually Harrison. And so if you go on my LinkedIn, you'll see Harrison Jack kept is I put my whole name on there. Honestly, I at the time I thought I was gonna like, like, I'm professional now I'm going to be Harrison. But I can't can't escape Jack everybody too many people have known me and so it's just always stuck.

Anu Adegbola (04:17)
done.

It's stuck. yeah, so go on there, find Harrison Jack, either one you want to call him, he'll answer to it because he's lovely that way. So yeah, let's get, let's get to the crux of this. This, you know, when I, when I spoke to Jack at Brighton, it was, you know, we're talking, I was talking about the podcast and I was like, look, we're talking about mistakes here. Do you have one to share? And straight away, someone, one, one came up off the tip of his tongue and I was like,

Really? You're going to share that with me? Yes, let's do it. So yeah, this is probably like the bravest of the stories that we've heard. This is, ⁓ you know, maybe for us a bit of like, the worst case scenario of a mistake that we could have. could have. But hey, he's still here. He's still here mentoring, coaching, training, helping businesses. So this even this worst case scenario did not break him. So

Guys pay attention to that. It's about the turnarounds, not just about, it's not about the failings. So very grateful that Jack has been brave enough to share this story with us. And I'm sure we'll learn a lot from it. So Jack, take it away. What F up would you like to share with us today?

Jack Hepp (05:26)
Yeah, so it was about a year and a half into my first agency job and I got fired from that job. for mistakes and other reasons, who knows, but there was definitely mistakes on my end and so I own that. So yeah, fired from my first job ever.

Anu Adegbola (05:41)
Fire from a first job ever. Yeah, that is, that's, that is the one thing that we, that could really break someone's spirit, especially the first job. Maybe you think like, can wait. Cause yeah, I've been fired, you know, would say even a few times it wasn't my first job, you know, I think if it was my first job, it would have been hard for me to get back in and be like, yeah, I can do this. So what, what the mistake that the, managers or the client were calling out?

What was it that was so bad that this had to be the action?

Jack Hepp (06:11)
Yeah, so we had, so at the time I was, I wasn't active. I was just, I was still learning honestly. And I wasn't actively managing very much. But I was, I was kind of managing the agency that was handling Google ads and some digital ads and stuff like that for this client. And there were, there had been a variety of issues that we tried to work through. And we were having issues with tracking and spending. I don't know, all kinds of stuff. You know, it's been.

almost 10 years ago now, so I can't remember all of them perfectly. But, know, the kind of the final straw was for a month we had significantly underspent the budget, you know, and I can't remember the time, but it might have been like 50%. Like we dramatically underspent and this company was heavily reliant on their online sales. And Google, I believe it was Google Ads, was the main driving force of all of their

Anu Adegbola (06:38)
So yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Jack Hepp (07:02)
You know, of, that online revenue. And so that, you know, that underspend on, on stuff on, for the month resulted in, major revenue decreases. And so they essentially blamed us for missed revenue. And then I was kind of the, you know, contact in the main person at that point in time. ⁓ and so it fell on me.

Anu Adegbola (07:21)
Being the main contact of the first job, I think that there was a lot of managerial, organizational failings there that was not you. you know, I know we can say that, ⁓ yeah, I know we're just trying to look for, you know, who else was at fault because a lot of what we talk about, I talk about with other experts that have come on the podcast is to give insight into how to deal with a team.

when they make an f up or when they make a mistake because if people hear my god I make a mistake I might get fired they won't test anything people are not gonna go on because they're just like my god my job is at risk so let me just stay within the lines and not not try anything not not try anything think big one one question I did come to my mind is that from your now experience and your years of understanding paid search and

and being great at it. Because I don't know whether to ask my question or to forgive my opinion. I'm very big on giving my opinion on these shows and I need to try to rein it in. But like, my big thing is that what's your, what's your thought on how they dealt with their paid search campaigns? Because I have thoughts.

Jack Hepp (08:20)
you

Yeah, you know, I mean, my big one now is I would say like, you should never have one channel that is like that dependent for your business. And if you do, you need to be trying to establish new things. So, you know, that's that's probably one of the biggest things I have there. And I think when I look back now, I think my biggest mistakes and my biggest feelings were in communication. And I think if I'd communicated better, it may have played out differently. ⁓

Anu Adegbola (08:48)
Sure, okay.

Hmm.

Jack Hepp (08:53)
You know, and

so that's the piece that I have always owned with it is I didn't communicate well. And if I had, know, maybe we would have, cause there was account managers involved. There was another agency involved, you know, like all these things. And, and, I, I think that I failed in making sure everybody was on the same page. And that's, know, kind of where the breakdown really ended up coming from. ⁓

Anu Adegbola (09:10)
Sure.

What was the cadence of communication? Like how often would you or did you or do you is it just that you saw the mistake and you didn't feed it back as quickly as you should have kind of thing?

Jack Hepp (09:23)
Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, was communicating, was having, had a meeting with the agency that was actually managing the ads. I believe I met with them weekly. And then I worked with the way this agency was, there was an account rep that then worked with the client. And so I met, you know, we worked in the same place. So her and I communicated constantly. And I think from my end, like,

Anu Adegbola (09:33)
Mm.

Jack Hepp (09:48)
I was so new. you know, I was fresh out of college really. I didn't know that much about digital marketing. And, and I think that I was afraid of like, communicate like the agency was communicating with me that, know, like, here's the reasons why things are behind blah, blah. And I don't think that I took that communication and gave it to the account rep well. And I think that there was breakdowns to the end client too, that, you know, wasn't necessarily mine to own but

Anu Adegbola (09:52)
Hmm.

All right.

Jack Hepp (10:15)
But there was definitely like a fear on my end, like I don't want to like say like this is happening, this is a mistake. And it kind of compounded from there, you know? And so like that's, I think that's was the biggest thing there.

Anu Adegbola (10:22)
Yeah.

Generally, honestly, it just sounds like you weren't managed well because that's, you know, first off, there's a lot of things that you're just not sure whether this is the information you give and when you give it, even till now, there are people who do the whole, oh, sales rep, what should we tell the sales rep? Whether they speak to the sales rep is even like another thing. Some marketers, they don't, so.

Yeah, it's such a weird scenario and honestly, I think for those listening, even for me, hearing that, okay, that's how that went about, I feel that agency had issues. doesn't count as a mistake. Can we get another one? Like, seriously, because, yeah.

They just decided you're millennial. Let's give you paid search to run on and, and, and not much. How much training do you get? Do you None.

Jack Hepp (11:20)
There

was none. I see when I when I was hired at that agency, I I was essentially like a project manager, I guess is what I would call it like for the first about year that I worked there. That's what I was and then towards the end of my first year and you know, then up until I was fired, they they were looking for somebody to do digital and and I had kind of dabbled with things it was like trying to learn on my own and stuff and but it was very much kind of like you've kind of done some of this stuff, you know, like

Anu Adegbola (11:27)
Yeah.

Jack Hepp (11:45)
Like you're young and you know how this works and stuff. so like that's, actually first like I was managing Facebook campaigns on my own at that time. Um, you know, and this would have been 2015. So very different, you know, time for managing Facebook. Um, but I didn't, I didn't have any experience with, with search, um, you know, with, Google ads or anything at that time. Um, which is why we had another agency involved running those things. Um, you know, but, but there was definitely an aspect of, didn't know what I didn't know. Um, and I think that that, that

Anu Adegbola (11:52)
Okay. Yes.

Mmm. Mmm.

Jack Hepp (12:14)
led to some of the breakdowns.

Anu Adegbola (12:14)
Yep

Yep, absolutely Absolutely, and what was your relationship like with your manager? Would you say?

Jack Hepp (12:21)
Um, you know, I thought it was good. I had gotten an excellent one year review, um, had, had gotten a raise, uh, you know, and, so I thought everything was good at that time. Um, and it kind of started to break down from there. It, it seemed like I couldn't do anything right. Um, which at the time was, it was very much like, what, how am I, why am I making so much mistakes? Looking, looking back now, like, I think some of these mistakes were blown out of proportion for whatever reason it may be.

Anu Adegbola (12:27)
Okay.

Hmm. ⁓

Hmm.

Mm.

Jack Hepp (12:49)
⁓ and, and so, yeah, it definitely deteriorated at that point.

Anu Adegbola (12:54)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And let's go back to even a point that you made and I made at beginning of the podcast. So right now, looking back, happy or not that you're still at that agency? Yeah.

Jack Hepp (13:07)
Yeah, looking back, I'm glad, you know, I wish it would have worked out a little differently, but I, it all worked out really well. And I'm very happy with where things went from there. And, and, know, at the time it felt like this devastating end of my career that hadn't even started. And, and, uh, you know, looking back now, it's, worked out.

Anu Adegbola (13:21)
Yeah.

So what was, you know, cause actually maybe someone is actually thinking, but God, if that happens to me, sure, I shouldn't be too panicked about it. But what was your next step? I'd say, you got fired. What happened? How did you get back on your feet?

Jack Hepp (13:38)
Yeah. you know, honestly, at the time I was like, that's it. Like I'm done with marketing. Like I, I, I failed. There's no way. and, and so to be honest, when I first started applying for jobs again, I wasn't even applying for marketing jobs. ⁓ I was trying to look for, know, I had a business degree, didn't have a lot of experience stuff. So, you know, I was kind of applying at banks or finance things. I was

Anu Adegbola (13:51)
Mmm.

Jack Hepp (14:00)
Kind of looking all over the place. But I was, it was very much like, I was like, I'm not doing marketing. Um, and, and I struggled to find a job. Um, I think it was, I think I was unemployed for like three months. Um, and my wife was in school, you know, we were, we were like newly fairly new. Like we'd only been married a year or two. It's like, it was, it was kind of rough. Yeah. Um, and

Anu Adegbola (14:19)
It was hard, yeah.

Jack Hepp (14:25)
And then ultimately my network came through for me. I randomly got a call from a different agency in town and they were looking for somebody to handle digital. They knew I had some experience and wanted me to interview. And at the time I was like, don't, they were like, we found your information online. Like we just want you to come interview. And I was like, okay, come to find out later.

somebody within my network had knew somebody at this agency and reached out was like, you really need to talk to him. Like he's great. Like don't look at his history. That's not representative. ⁓ and so, cause even at the time I, I interviewed for like a sales job at a TV station to like sell digital. ⁓ it wouldn't even have been managing it. was your small business sales. and, and that, I had one interview that went well, had a second interview.

Anu Adegbola (14:54)
Yeah.

Okay, Yeah.

Jack Hepp (15:09)
And then, and part of that second, Year's, you know, they asked like, what happened at your last job? And like, why haven't you been working and stuff? And, know, I tried to explain it as well as I could. And I try to take some ownership in it too. And I think that there was other things, but, um, but then that was it never heard from again. And, and, know, so like, I just was like, this is it. And, you know, my network came through for me and got me into a new job and then I was able to build from there. So

Anu Adegbola (15:24)
Yeah.

Amazing yay for networks. I am big on this whole when everybody tells me like how do I should I get involved? I was like join one of the slacks join like a PSA or PPC chat or something like I get I live in that's 2015 I think now more than ever You know getting a job is so hard. It can be so hard and it's such and it's such a Like a strength to just have a network of people

And sometimes it's not even about even going on LinkedIn anymore or going to on an Indeed or Read or all these sites. It's literally about going onto one of those, those, those like, you know, communities that we always chat about stuff and say, Hey guys, I'm looking for, for something now. I've got like time for some clients that anyone's got something. You always get a response. There's always, there's, it happens in SEO communities, really happened a lot more in the PPC community. guys, that's a big takeaway.

build that network of folks, even if you're thinking, I'm satisfied with my job right now, great, you never know when you'll need it as a backup. You never know. You never know, right? Yeah.

Jack Hepp (16:38)
Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I kind of remember always hearing like, you know, business, it's all about who you know, and people kind of say it negatively, like, you know, like, but, but in reality, like, it is very much about who you know, from the standpoint of like, your network will come through for you. And, and, and my network has come through for me, you know, I think every job, honestly, that I've gotten in my career has been through my network in one way or another, somebody vouched for me, you know, those sorts of things. And so it plays a big

Anu Adegbola (16:51)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what that's it's a new format of I don't know if you you had this in the US and the UK. If you're handing your CV, you need to your references now references are the people who you're connected to on LinkedIn or the people who do we see that you're interacting with and we're like, okay, if that person who I know is really good is is bigging up, you know, Jack's work and saying he's good. Okay, that's that's a good that's pretty much as good a reference, you know, right now. Yeah.

Jack Hepp (17:14)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Absolutely.

Anu Adegbola (17:34)
Yeah.

Jack Hepp (17:34)
Yeah. You know, a little bit of personal brand in there to, know, make me put some stuff out there about yourself too. I think that's big now. So

Anu Adegbola (17:36)
Yeah?

Yeah,

I think some people I just find it a little bit cringy and like, I'm doing the work. I just want to, ⁓ I don't want to do that. And I, and find it, all about, ⁓ this person get likes in my post. Don't get any likes. Stop focusing on things like that. Just be yourself. There's someone who I'm sure like, but he's more like he's, he's very experienced head of the department.

Jack Hepp (17:44)
Yeah.

Anu Adegbola (18:03)
He uses LinkedIn as like Facebook now. He will talk about the puppy they adopted last week. He will talk about, you know, his favorite musicians. And I'm like, Gareth, you know LinkedIn is about professional work. And you know, don't, I think we need to stop making it about, LinkedIn is, LinkedIn is what you want to make it to be. It's all these platforms that way you're coming here. It's what you, know, you, I'll, every once in a while I'll just go through.

Jack Hepp (18:16)
You

Anu Adegbola (18:31)
people's, you know, people that I trust, I'll look at their followers and I'll be like, send connection requests to all those folks because if they know my friend, they must be good folks as well. And that's definitely, I think, tip for people. So just one last thing before we move on and to talking about, you know, other people's F-Ups, even though I feel we talked about other people's F-Ups already in your story, God's sake.

Jack Hepp (18:43)
Absolutely.

You

Anu Adegbola (18:55)
What's the one last lesson, take away that you want for to give our listeners?

Jack Hepp (19:01)
Yeah, I think my biggest thing is like really transparent communication. Like I said, I think that if I had communicated better at that point in time, and I think if other people around me had communicated better at that time, you know, I think that it could have played out differently. And to be honest, you know, I've made plenty of mistakes since I've made budget mistakes. I've made, you know, campaign mistakes and stuff. But what I've always found is if you're extremely transparent, you're like, you know, I own it. messed up. Here's, here's how I can fix it.

Anu Adegbola (19:06)
Yeah.

Jack Hepp (19:28)
You know, I think people for the most part are very responsive to that. And so I think that's, that's been something that I've always tried to take away from it and tried to bring in, you know, into every job I've gone in is just, you got it, whether it stinks, nobody wants to admit they made a mistake and nobody wants to tell somebody. But if when you're transparent about your mistakes and you're, and you communicate with people, you know, somebody else can help. They have experiences, they've done things, they know, you know, ways we can fix it. And.

you know, we've all set the budget to $1,000 a day instead of $100 a day at some point in our career. You know, and so if you go to somebody else, you're like, you know, I blew it, I did this, you're more than likely you're going to be met with like, Yep, I've done it. Here's, here's how we can fix it. Let's you know. And so that's, that's the thing. My biggest takeaway is just try to be transparent and communicate as much as possible with your mistakes and find a way to work through them.

Anu Adegbola (19:59)
Yep.

Absolutely and like my my an example of the wrong daily budget is the fact that I have set a campaign that was bidding on competitive terms competitive terms and you know how expensive they're gonna be anyway I put this cost per click to be 20 pounds or like dollars instead of 0.20 and oh my god

Jack Hepp (20:44)
no.

Anu Adegbola (20:45)
The budget blew. The thing is that as well, was kinda, I had handed in my notice, like I was leaving. And so they were like, so you're leaving. So you just don't care anymore. And I was like, no, was an honest mistake. ⁓ God, it was funny. And the thing is that I think that client was under spending. So we actually, were like, wow, we've actually spent our daily budget today. good, well done, Anu I was like, yeah, sure. Whatever, I'm still leaving.

Jack Hepp (20:55)
Right

Yeah.

Right? Yeah. It was

funny. the job I went to after, I think it was within my first like three months of that new job, I made the budget mistake and I blew a month and a half of a client's budget in a week. you know, so of course at that point in time, I'm like, I'm done. Like I'm going to get fired again. Like this is like, I already blew it. And, you know, I went to my manager at that time was like, you know, I screwed up this happened. And we talked to the client and they're like, yeah, no worries. Like, well.

Anu Adegbola (21:17)
Mm.

Wow.

Okay. Yeah.

this has happened.

Jack Hepp (21:39)
Let's just repacings. We'll do things a little different. We can spend a little extra and, it worked out and, I haven't made that mistake since thankfully. ⁓ and, I also very closely monitor it to make sure. So, like, that, think reinforced in to me too, like if you're transparent and you communicate and you say like, I blew it, like, let's find a way to fix it. You know, I think you can work through a lot of mistakes that way.

Anu Adegbola (21:44)
Nice.

See you later.

Absolutely, I love it. All right, let's shift the spotlight. Thank you so much for that brave story. Sorry to have you have to have you recount it. but I know actually a little bit when I was thinking about this, I was thinking about this question. was like, okay, that's that's it's going to be the part of the conversation where we talk about F apps that we see in terms of how people use AI. But I also want do want to tie it with your story because

Jack Hepp (22:06)
Yeah.

Ahem.

Anu Adegbola (22:27)
I feel some folks might think, well, if we're in the era of AI, it's a lot easier to just pick up paid search, you know? And I'd actually probably think more companies do that of like, okay, we'll just get someone that's, you know, young enough. and just, you know, don't know how to use AI, give them an account. Is that good or a bad thing?

Jack Hepp (22:46)
My story is a caution tale, right? ⁓ You don't know what you don't know. And I think that that was one of the biggest things for me. And I think that that's, one of the same thing now. I do think in a lot of ways it's easier to pick up things now with AI. I think it's easier than ever to set up accounts and run accounts. I think it's harder than ever to run them extremely well and get above average results. ⁓

Anu Adegbola (22:48)
Yeah!

Yeah!

Yeah.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jack Hepp (23:11)
I think that that's kind of the biggest thing you run into. You may hire somebody that's really cheap and uses AI or Young or whatever it is, and the results might be fine, but you might hire somebody with 15 years experience and the results could be great. I think that that's, again, you just don't know what you don't know. And until you figure those things out, you don't know where to go next.

Anu Adegbola (23:25)
Great.

Yeah, absolutely. One thing I've been like, you know, really adamant about saying more recently is the fact that even with AI is the experts that need to be behind those. Well, it's the people who actually know the basics of paid search. We still need to be teaching people the basics of paid search, basics of marketing, basics of like, it's all about the customer. And then once you build that maturity of actually really understanding that.

put that person in front of an AI, put it, put an expert in front of AI and you'll get the best results instead of just putting, you know, a junior thinking AI will, you know, they'll be able to, AI will help them, you know, do the good, as you said, it'll be average. It'll be average. And that's a very fair point that people should listen to, especially anyone that's a client listen. If you want average results, sure, get anyone to use AI, but if you want above average, get an expert. That will never not be true.

Yeah. ⁓

Jack Hepp (24:28)
That experience

plays in at some point,

Anu Adegbola (24:30)
Yeah, exactly absolutely plays in absolutely plays in and so like okay, let's let's do the like the question I ask everyone like what's a big eff up that you think people are You know that you've experienced you've seen people do with ai and how they use ai

Jack Hepp (24:44)
I think honestly taking the human out of it is, it seems like I'm seeing it more. think too, like I think early on people were very like, yeah, like AI is fine, but we have to have the human side to it. And I think more and more like you're getting a lot of people that are like, no AI is good now. And in a lot of ways, obviously it's continues to improve and it will continue to improve. But I think more and more people are like comfortable taking the human side out of it and just being like, Hey, let the machine go, let the AI go. And I think that's, you start to see mistakes. Like I've seen.

Anu Adegbola (24:47)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Jack Hepp (25:12)
⁓ you'll counts with like obvious AI ads in it and stuff and you get ad copy that just doesn't make sense or doesn't fit. Right. Cause there was no human in there to like look through and be like, wait, time out that something's weird here. And you know, so think that that's a big one. I, I think I see it happening more and more too.

Anu Adegbola (25:21)
there's no human in there to look through and be like, wait, come out, something's weird here. so I think that that's a big.

okay. Taking the human out and more and more of it being done. That is, that is disappointing. Cause I feel like a lot of what we actually talk about is like put the human, a lot of like the big influences that I enjoy following. Like even the likes of Fred Vallaeys who is big on like the whole AI and automation and he's very, talks a lot about vibe coding, will still argue for like, yeah, take things a bit slower, you know.

figure things out. I think we're throwing around the phrase of anyone can, anyone can do this. I'm like, no, anyone can. Like, can do an okay job and a job that will, you know, for customers that you don't necessarily care about. But I think we're gonna really start seeing the differences between brands that care about their customers and brands that.

Jack Hepp (26:06)
Okay.

Anu Adegbola (26:23)
that don't and I just edit for the money. ⁓

Jack Hepp (26:26)
Yeah.

And I think, I think it's a matter of like, AI has gotten good enough now that you feel like you can just let it go. Like, like all the AI do probably more now than I would, you know, a year ago. Um, and, like, have ad copy that's largely AI created, but you know, I went through and tweaked a few things, stuff like a year ago, it may have given me ideas and then it was mostly me from there. like, but I think that that's, I think people are, have gotten

Anu Adegbola (26:33)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Okay. Sure.

Jack Hepp (26:51)
so comfortable with it and it's good enough that they feel like I can just let it go. ⁓ But they've gone too far to like taking the human side out of it. Especially if they're not experienced. I think less experienced people maybe lean on it too much.

Anu Adegbola (26:55)
Mmm.

Absolutely. yeah, so let's I'm glad you ended on that. You you said that last last sentence because for those who aren't as experienced, I'm not able to speak to managers. How should they be approaching, you know, the whole working in pay touch and how should managers really be treating their juniors?

Jack Hepp (27:23)
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that that's a big challenge because like in a lot of ways AI can do a lot of things that a junior account manager might've done historically. And so I think, I think you have to one way or another people need to get experience and need to have an understanding of how things work. And, and so I think maybe like give people some manual tasks, even if AI can do some things or, at least make sure that they understand the why like,

Anu Adegbola (27:32)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Jack Hepp (27:52)
Why are we,

you know, why do we want these keywords with this ad copy or why are we thinking about things? So instead of just being like, here's our process. Here's the AI tool, take it and run, like make sure people understand the why behind it. And, and I think that that applies throughout marketing, like understand why you're doing the thing, even if it's automated, make sure you understand why it's happening. And that way people can make decisions and see mistakes because they understand the whole picture.

Anu Adegbola (28:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, my brain was like, maybe I should have asked the question, what's a leader's role, but you, that's the question you answered, like tell them the why that's such a brilliant way to put that. Jack, this has been a fantastic conversation and you know, I'm really grateful for all those lessons that you've given, given people. It's been a very great and unique insight, insight. ⁓ yeah, our last question before we say goodbye to you, if your PPC career.

were a movie, what would the title be?

Jack Hepp (28:46)
I'm gonna have to say like the PPC sequel. I thought it was over and I gotta come back for a part two. that's all I'll go with.

Anu Adegbola (28:48)
Okay.

Hey,

amazing. Season two, just when we thought this season one was not going to get renewed, it got renewed. You got back in. You got back in. Well, I'm really grateful that you got back in clearly from, you know, all what people say about you, your comments, your insights that you give. You're definitely one of those that we should be hearing more of about what's going on in terms of like, you know, paid search.

Jack Hepp (28:56)
Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Anu Adegbola (29:17)
and such. But yeah, before we leave you, like, where can people find you with, you know, for your interesting thoughts that you share?

Jack Hepp (29:24)
Thanks again for having me on for one. um, I, LinkedIn is probably where I'm most active. Like that's going to be the best place. Um, and, uh, you might, you might find some stuff on my website now and then, but LinkedIn is probably the best place.

Anu Adegbola (29:28)
Yes.

LinkedIn's the best. Well, Thank you so much for that, Jack. And yeah, thank you to our listeners for keeping up with us today.

Anu Adegbola (29:42)
Thank you so much, Jack, for sharing that very honest and raw and transparent experience. mean, like, yeah, that is, that is something that, that I'm sure was probably quite hard to have to recount where you think to yourself that your first job, first job ever role in paid search, the, ⁓ yeah, your manager was like, yep, you're not good enough. And you can say, love the honest journey that Jack took us on on how you honestly thought.

Maybe I should quit marketing, which is a natural thing to think about. But thankfully he had his network. He had his network on his side and they came through for him and yeah, he's where he is today. yeah, whoever with what that friend was, thank you. Thank you for pushing Jack in the right direction to being the success he is today. so yeah, remember no matter how low things look like and, and you know, whether you've lost a job or you've been fired.

things can still turn around, things can always turn around. For the full discussion of that episode and full transcripts, show notes and everything, please go to podcast.ppc.live for all of that. Now I'm excited right now in terms of talking about our PPC live events. you're listening to this on a Wednesday,

before 5.30, there's still time to get a ticket. Just come on through. We might even be able to sell tickets at the door. So even if you've not got a ticket, check it out. We're going to be at Tug Agency. Yeah, Google their address. Their full address is like number 1 Leonard Circus. I don't know the postcode, but go on Google and they'll be able to give you the address for that one. It's going to be a fantastic event. We've got loads of people coming through. Very grateful for Tug Agency, for Swydo, for Clicktech.

for helping to make this event happen. There are fantastic support and sponsors. But yeah, if you want to come around and get a 49 pound ticket for three fantastic talks about A-B testing, how PPC works in the ecosystem and how it's so important, about the future of search, we're gonna have a fantastic panel discussion about what have been our favorite updates of this year, what are we planning for next year,

what your predictions are for trends for next year. We'll be having those kinds of discussions tomorrow evening, because I'm recording this on a Tuesday or this evening, if you're listening to this on a Wednesday. So we'd love for you to join us to check that out. If you're watching or listening to this after Wednesday, 22nd of October, because this will be the one on Wednesday, October 22nd is our last.

of 2025, the next one will be February 5th. We've got a script expert who I spoke to at a conference, one of the SMX advanced conferences who has agreed and said, I knew yes, I'm in town in February. So yeah, I'm happy to come speak along. Oh, it's going to be such a great announcement to be able to get him on stage. But yeah, he's the script expert. He works two.

two hours in the week because of the fantastic scripts model that he's put together to allow himself to audit people's accounts and clients accounts and campaigns and put the right things in place. He's just fantastic at what he does and he's a great speaker and I'm so excited to have him. So yeah, if you're listening to this after Wednesday, October 22nd, put February 5th, save that date, go to ppc.live. There's a, if you go down the homepage, you'll see a

a reminder or like a tab showing the upcoming dates and you can save the dates directly into your calendar by clicking the button. So yeah, I definitely think that's a great idea for you. but yeah, also before I leave you, I'm also delighted to share that I am also taking on coaching clients. so yeah, anyone that just wants to get through the challenges of being in this industry of getting ahead, what to do if you've been fired, how to just pick yourself back up.

and put yourself out there. I'd love to hear from you. Go to themarketingannu.com to book an initial half an hour discovery chat. And then we'll go into discussing what you're gonna need and how long it'll take and what the cost will be for that. But yeah, go to The Marketing Anu if you think I could help you with anything. So yeah, I hope you've enjoyed the show and I look forward to bringing more PPC F ups and triumphs next week.

apologies not next week because it's my birthday next week so a week after next in 2 weeks time we'll be back on our weekly schedule thank you so much bye