EP318 - The £50 Bid Disaster ft Chris Nightingale

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Hello and welcome to PPC Live,
the podcast formerly the PPC

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Chat Roundup.
My name is Anu, the founder of

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PPC Live.
And if you are used to hearing

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advice from PPC experts about
how to ensure that we are

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keeping up with the ever
changing landscape, don't worry,

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you are still in the right
place.

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But instead of me relaying what
the PPC experts are saying, I'm

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going to be bringing the PPC
experts to you.

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Every week I'm going to be
speaking to a different PPC

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expert about the biggest ever,
but not just that, but also how

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they've turned it around.
We're going to share what has

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been disappointing, who has been
supportive and just how things

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have materialised along the way,
especially the biggest

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learnings.
This week I speak to Chris

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Nightingale, founder of Can Do
Digital Marketing, and he does

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PPC and paid social under that
company.

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And yeah, he talks about a story
early in his career at a time

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when mistakes do happen.
And he talks about how this

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mistake happened, his immediate
response to it, which is late at

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night.
Harry recovered from the

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situation, who was supportive,
who was surprising in their

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reactions and the lessons that
he had about failures.

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The conversation also touches
about advice on other areas of

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others similar in this situation
and the importance of good

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management especially and some
thoughts about using AI in PPC

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marketing.
So I hope you enjoy this

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episode.
Today I'm delighted to welcome

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Chris Nightingale to PPC Live,
the podcast.

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Chris is the Founder and
Director of Can Do Digital

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Marketing Limited, AUK based
agency specialising in

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performance marketing services
such as PPC and paid social

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media.
With over a decade of

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experience, Chris has worked
with notable brands like ao.com

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and Matalan, focusing on
delivering commercially driven,

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profit focused digital
strategies.

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His approach emphasises
integrating AI tools to enhance

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campaign efficiency and
performance.

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Chris is also active in the
digital marketing community,

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always giving fantastic insights
on LinkedIn.

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I personally must say I've
quoted him a few times in the

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PPC Live newsletter, so you
might recognise his name from

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there, But he's always sharing
insights as well through

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webinars and podcasts.
And for instance, he discussed

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strategies for managing branded
search campaigns in a 2024 Lunar

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webinar.
And additionally, he appeared on

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the Marketing Showcase podcast
where he talked about

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transitioning from working at a
billion dollar company to

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running his own agency.
Now, outside of digital

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marketing, he does have a fairly
interesting life.

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He's a black belt in Taekwondo
and loves rock climbing.

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So without further ado, welcome
to the show, Chris.

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Brilliant.
Hello, nice to see you and

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thanks for having me on.
Pleasure to be here.

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Amazing.
So about the rock climbing, I

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said I'd do this, so you should
be prepared.

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We were saying how we were
talking about it and saying

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about how it's like PPC.
Tell us more about that.

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How is rock climbing similar to
PPC?

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Yeah, I remember I've been rock
climbing for a number of years

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now and I it's such a mental
problem that you solve in a very

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physical way.
And I just thought one day this

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is exactly how PPC is.
You've got a wall, you've got

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loads of different boulders that
you could potentially go up, but

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there is a finite set way of
which to best do it and a number

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of boulders of which you need to
put your foot on.

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And then you need to put your
hand there, then do this, then

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that to reach the top.
And if you do it wrong, then

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you're just going to fall
completely all the way down and

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you're going to have to start
from scratch again.

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So for me, it's very much that
PPC mindset of I need to build

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the campaign structure, then I
need to talk to creative, I need

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to talk to all these people, do
all these things, but once I've

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got them all together in the
right order, I'll get the

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problem solved.
So that's how I've always

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thought the two are connected.
I pretty much agree with you on

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that one.
So as our listeners are used to

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now, we don't waste too much of
our time with too much chit chat

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at the beginning.
We know what this podcast is

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about.
We want to hear about the

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mistake that they came up with,
an F up that you experience and

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how you turn that around, what
the price is about.

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So you know what the story was.
Yeah, let's get to it.

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Chris, what is the F up that you
want to share with us today?

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Yeah, it's a big F up and it
pains me to speak about it to

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this day, but the F up in this
case was caveat, it was nine

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years ago.
So pretty much a year, maybe 2

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years into my PPC journey was
APPC exec, kind of a well known

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agency and an agency life for me
back in the day was managing

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lots of accounts, very new to
everything, working all the

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hours of the day because I was
very passionate.

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So I'm passionate about PPC, but
it's very time intensive in

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certain companies.
And this particular client was a

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sort of a second hand car market
client.

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There's multiple different cars
you can imagine different car

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types, different car models,
engines, everything like that,

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colours.
There's a big keyword database

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set to manage.
And I was working all hours of

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the day and we were spending not
that much in the day.

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So in the evening of of the day,
I sat down and managed to get

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home, got home about 6:00.
I thought, you know what, let's

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just check in on performance.
Let's see what needs to be done.

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Let's really get the most that I
can for this client here.

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And we were placing a little bit
behind.

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So what I decided to do was up
bids by 50P.

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What I instead did, and the way
that SA 360 and Google kind of

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worked by then it was really
easy to change bids by

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percentage or pounds instead of
percentages.

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But what I ended up doing in
that scenario was I can't

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believe this has been recorded,
but hey changed bids by 50 lbs

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instead of 50 pence.
So as you can imagine, pretty

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big difference between a 1 LB
bid going to £1.50 and a 1 LB

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bid going to 50 lbs.
And those were the days where

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PPC was still very automated,
not too many bid strategies in

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play here, very manual.
And Google swallowed that

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investment that we gave it.
Luckily, I guess you could say I

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was very proactive within this
journey.

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And I checked again at 8:00 PM
because of just, I was checking

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in for this client to see if we
had made it up for the day and

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we had more than made it up for
the day.

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We had spent a lot of money.
In fact, when I had to pause the

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campaigns at 8:00 PM because
we'd spent so much money, Google

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was still catching up with
itself and checking it at 9 PM,

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10:00 PM, that cost was still
going up significantly.

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Yeah.
So you can imagine the the

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panickedness that I had to that
I was just panicking very

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junior, maybe a year or two in
your full PPC exec and not sure

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of the consequences.
What's going to happen here?

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We have to speak to was on the
phone to people who probably

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wanted just to be enjoying their
evenings, but PPC never sleeps.

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I said, I guess I'll pause
there.

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That was the mistake, a very big
mistake.

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Wow, Yeah, you gave us lots of
useful information then.

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And I think something that is
very useful to understand about

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that mistake is that you're a
junior and you will make more

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mistakes when you're a junior.
And hopefully and I'm sure you

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can say that now there's there's
a lot less that you make, the

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volume is a lot less.
And that is just the nature of

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the game.
And I think some people get

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nervous starting a career and
they're like, Oh my God, I made

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a mistake.
I'm the worst person in the

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world.
You're like, no, you're just one

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year in.
You're supposed.

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I'd actually argue that you're
supposed to make the mistakes

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now rather than later, even to.
Do this kind of, I would agree.

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I think the only way that you're
going to learn, particularly in

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PPC, is by making mistakes.
And if there is someone out

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there who's never made a mistake
or says they've always done a

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test that's been perfect, I
would challenge they've not done

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enough tests or they've not done
the right tests.

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Because the only way that you
learn is by doing things that go

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wrong and then learning what to
do in place of that.

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There's so many new queries that
are being input into Google

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every day, particularly when you
look at different kind of

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platforms and how big the query
lengths can be, how people are

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reacting to different types of
media and images and video, the

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stuff that's changing all the
time.

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And we're not going to know what
people want unless we test it

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and actually understand what
they want.

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I'm a big advocate of failure,
but obviously within its

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parameters, I think that tests
failing isn't a bad thing.

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It's a test that's been learned
from, and I think that's almost

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better than not learning at all.
Absolutely agree.

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So now going back to that
problem to yourself nine years

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ago, and yeah, you've seen this
issue, the spend has gone up and

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oh, you're panicking a bit.
How did you turn it around?

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So the immediate thing was
obviously pausing the account,

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phoning my director, and then
past that point, there's not

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much you can do at eight, 9:00
at night other than do that and

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sit tight for the night.
And as you can imagine, not the

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best night sleep I've ever had.
But in terms of that, it's about

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being proactive.
For me, it was about saying

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this.
I'm owning myself straight up to

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the client first to hold your
hands up.

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It's always, and I've known
people who've done this before,

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you never want to slip these
things under the blanket and try

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and run along with it.
And you're always going to be

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upfront.
Show them what the issue was,

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show them the steps in place
that you're going to do to

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rectify that problem and how
you're going to do that.

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The other thing that we tried to
do as well was go forward to

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these advertising platforms like
Google, like Bing to say,

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listen, this was a genuine
mistake.

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You can see that the click
traffic was about the same, but

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the actual cost per click was
just significantly higher than

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expected.
And sometimes Google or Bing

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will give you refunds for that
if, you know, it wasn't

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necessarily malicious, which is,
which was always good.

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And then for the months
afterwards, we actually built up

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a really good relationship with
the client because they could

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see we genuinely cared about
their brand and their reputation

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and their accounts and getting
the maximum amount of money for

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them as humanly possible.
And actually, the months

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afterwards, we got some of the
best results in the account

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we've ever had.
And that was just a case.

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It was, it was just caring and
saying we did waste a chunk of

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money, but actually we've made
it up and then some in the

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months ahead.
So that was, yeah, I guess

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that's how we turned it around.
Was there anything that

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surprised you about the
situation?

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Reaction from the client for
example?

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How did that go?
Yeah, the reaction from the

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client in this case wasn't
great.

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They didn't want a big chunk of
money back in return.

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The biggest surprise for me,
though, was the reaction from a

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manager at the time.
They were actually super

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supportive and a lot more
supportive than when I thought I

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was going to pick up the phone
and I was going to get an

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absolute hounding.
But actually they were very

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calm, very supportive, talked us
through the next steps, what we

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should do, what my thoughts
were.

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And there was actually a little
bit of it was eight, 9:00 at

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night here, but a bit of
coaching involved.

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They're asking what I would do,
what I think we should do, and

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then told the steps in place
that we should do that next.

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And yeah, that was the thing
that surprised me because I

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thought I was really going to
get the opposite.

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I think a lot of people think
that, and if they've effed up or

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they failed or they've done a
test that hasn't been quite

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right, that they're just going
to get nothing but shouting or

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abuse.
But actually they're really

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supportive.
And I think that's a great

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quality of a manager actually,
is to work with people in a very

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calm, measured way as we're all
working towards a common goal.

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Everyone wants the client to
succeed.

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Everyone wants their business to
make more money.

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00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,280
No one's here to necessarily
maliciously deviate that.

227
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Yeah, that surprised me.
That's the kind of a surprise

228
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,080
you want at with issues like
that.

229
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,920
It's I've said it so many times,
you hear it so many times.

230
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,680
People leave roles not because
of necessarily the situation or

231
00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:02,640
even salary is because of a good
manager or a bad manager or how

232
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how good the managers was.
That's the thing remember that

233
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quote is that you'll never
remember what people said, but

234
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you remember how you made them,
how they made you feel.

235
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And for me, that that's so
important when you're a manager

236
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as well, particularly if you're
taking your first steps into

237
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management and people don't
necessarily know how to people

238
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,640
manage.
It's just building that

239
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,040
relationship like you would a
friend, building blocks in terms

240
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,240
of working together, working
towards the same goal, being

241
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,840
patient, allowing employees to
make mistakes and giving them

242
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,000
the effectively the keys to an
account and trying things for

243
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themselves because like I said,
that's the only way they're

244
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going to learn.
But being a good manager, I

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00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:35,920
cannot emphasise that enough.
I've had plenty of not great

246
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,480
managers and I always strive to
be a good manager.

247
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,040
And that's really good.
Now looking back as well back to

248
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,000
that issue, what would you say
are signs that you missed?

249
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,960
If you if there was something
that you'd paid attention more

250
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,240
to that would have helped to
avoid this issue, what can you

251
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,200
give for listeners to avoid?
Yeah.

252
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,240
So I, I think I was thinking
about this and the only real

253
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difference maybe is that there
was some seasonality adjustments

254
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,040
or time of day bidding
adjustments in this case that

255
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,000
were perhaps probably off that
meant we weren't spending

256
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,800
through the day as much as we
should have done.

257
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,440
And I know kind of these days we
don't perhaps rely on as much a

258
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,040
time of day bidding seasonality
about too much things because

259
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it's all a lot of it's very
automated.

260
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But in this case, there were
certain nuances behind the

261
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,840
scenes and very much in the
settings of a campaign that

262
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,720
probably should have had greater
kind of attention.

263
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,480
And what I would say, I guess is
a solution to maybe thinking

264
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,000
about that in today's age is
that I use a lot of tools now

265
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,240
that can help me spot 4 O fours,
misspellings, ads that are

266
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,680
perhaps redirecting, loads of
things like that.

267
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,320
There's tools out there.
There's loads of great tools

268
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,000
that can scripts and paid for
tools that can just help you

269
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,360
pick up on things without having
to.

270
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,240
Because I remember I've done
this in Black Friday for a

271
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,400
client once as I clicked on
every ad in every ad group in

272
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,640
every campaign just to make sure
that the URLs are working.

273
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,480
And that was a great waste of an
hour, but it was necessary to

274
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,680
make sure that we weren't
wasting those clicks, right?

275
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,160
There's so many more tools, and
I'm a big advocate of AI.

276
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,160
There's so many tools that allow
us as PPC is to do that job

277
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,760
better and not miss the absolute
fundamentals that crack an

278
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,800
account.
So, yeah, I think if that that

279
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,080
really goes into one of the
questions I had there, which is

280
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,960
like what is the process of
mindset that you have now?

281
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,920
And the process is use the tools
that you have available to you

282
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,880
to ensure that you're putting
those cheques in place and those

283
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,120
cheques are being done well,
correct?

284
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,720
Yeah, exactly that.
Yeah, I guess the way I'd

285
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,560
probably say it's like hoping
for the best but planning for

286
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,080
the worst, putting the cheques
in place that just in case it

287
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,840
goes wrong, particularly around
Black Friday, a sales period,

288
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,440
summer holidays, things are
going to be changing like

289
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,880
rapidly.
So to have that plan in place,

290
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,000
whether it's a campaign bill,
that it's a new promo thing and

291
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,040
always have either automation or
maybe an assistant or someone

292
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,320
else to spot check you or just
double check that work.

293
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,720
Because when you're spending 10s
or hundreds of thousands of

294
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,520
pounds of clients money in this
space, performance marketing,

295
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,000
right?
It has to perform, it has to

296
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,760
make, it has to go to the
website and it has to convert.

297
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,280
Yeah, it's always good to get a
second opinion.

298
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,600
Absolutely.
What advice would you give

299
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,120
someone that's going through
this process right now?

300
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,960
Maybe they've not quite come to
the other side of you guys have

301
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,600
found the solution and you and a
client that is finally

302
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,120
understanding they've just in a
few hours of just making the

303
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,040
mistake.
What's your advice to them?

304
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,000
Though I would say don't panic
except that these things happen,

305
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,680
but follow up things as you
would like.

306
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,920
A good humans example of this is
ao.com, one of our morals, and

307
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,200
I'm probably messing up the
words a little bit here, but the

308
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,200
kind of the principle was do
stuff that would make your grand

309
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,960
proud.
Or if you were to talk to your

310
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,280
mom, at the end of the day,
would the decisions that you've

311
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,360
made make her proud?
And would she say those are the

312
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,560
right decisions?
And if the answer's yes, then

313
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,440
you've made the right decision,
even if it cost the business

314
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,000
money or even if it did this or
that.

315
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,400
So always just go about your way
and things that you would think,

316
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,600
yeah, I'd be happy that was the
right decision, even if it might

317
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,240
cost the business money, let's
say.

318
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,960
I'd always say as well, ask for
forgiveness and not permission.

319
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,920
So I always think that you
should be going and trying new

320
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,200
things and not being accepted
that you're going to just be

321
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,200
pigeonholed into a very nuanced
thing.

322
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,040
So I'd always go out there and
just try and be the best person

323
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,920
you can effectively and try new
things just and just accept that

324
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,640
failure might be happening.
It might be part of that.

325
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,840
And that's absolutely fine
because many other people have.

326
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,360
Everyone, I would would have
would argue has failed at some

327
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,080
point.
Yeah, absolutely.

328
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,240
I and I love that for there's
another very my favourite quote

329
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,880
of mine in terms of ask for
forgiveness.

330
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,120
It's better to ask for
forgiveness than for permission

331
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,480
because that's where that's all,
where all the entrepreneurial

332
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,280
spirits come from.
And companies want that.

333
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,120
People want someone who is
willing to like test something

334
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,880
and try something that is
different.

335
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,160
That could be really great.
And the whole asking for

336
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,480
forgiveness is that a mistake
could happen.

337
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,360
And, and I think companies,
while they're willing to grow,

338
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,080
they're willing to be seen as
innovative.

339
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,400
And if they're really pushing
the bar for their clients are

340
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,400
the people who have employees
that are willing to test things

341
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,360
without necessarily asking for
permission first, because they

342
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,120
are really, they're just going
out, they're having ideas, they

343
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,400
have things that they want to
try and they try it out.

344
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,280
Yeah, absolutely.
And that they've got their very

345
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,360
solution mindset focused.
And I think that's the other

346
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,040
thing as well is that when you
come to a potential F up, when

347
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,800
you come to your manager might
not just want to see what's

348
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,720
happened, but actually what your
opinion are, what your opinions

349
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,560
are in terms of the solutions.
So I'd always say, rather than

350
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,040
just going to your manager with
problems, come to them with at

351
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,720
least what you think is a
solution and run it by them,

352
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,760
because again, that can go well
in your favour.

353
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,760
Absolutely.
And then you've been talking to

354
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,600
them about what you were trying
to do, what you were trying to

355
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,440
actually achieve because of
yourself.

356
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,840
This is what we wanted to do
that I felt that I've seen this

357
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,880
other brand do it that's very
similar to yours.

358
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,360
They had success with it.
So I was trying to replicate

359
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,680
that success for you.
And if you start the story that

360
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,240
way, they might be like bracing
themselves for where it went

361
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,280
wrong.
But it starts of right.

362
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,520
That is how you start the story.
If you just go in with us.

363
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,840
Someone said this, so I did it,
you know, without any good logic

364
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,960
with why you were trying to do
it.

365
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,560
That's where it goes wrong.
I think you've, you've, you've

366
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,920
given our listeners amazing
tips, amazing takeaways.

367
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,200
Well, if people have been really
busy with and multitasking while

368
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,000
listening beforehand, but at
this point you want to give them

369
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,480
with one takeaway about this
issue that you had and how you

370
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,440
went through it.
What's one thing that you want

371
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,280
to people leave people with?
Yeah, probably can't put it much

372
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,240
better than that, asking for
forgiveness, not permission.

373
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,280
But if I was to elaborate that
and it, it'd just be just just

374
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,280
do it, just try it, just go
ahead and make it happen even if

375
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,960
you think it's wrong.
It's not like we were saying it

376
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,240
has to be in the good
intentions.

377
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,000
The reason I was doing it was
because we'd not spent the daily

378
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,760
budget that was perhaps
allocated to it and we wanted to

379
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,920
make sure we were maximising the
clients traffic, maximising

380
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,000
their return on investment and
it was all with good intent,

381
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,640
right.
So if I was to apply that to

382
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,560
maybe other failures, it's just
about making sure that whatever

383
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,440
that test is, that you're trying
to do it with the mindset of

384
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,120
maximising your own business
revenue or your client's

385
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,160
business revenue, having a
framework or something in place

386
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,680
that means, yes, I'm going to do
this and trying to make it

387
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,240
happen.
Amazing.

388
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,960
That's a great take away if I
ever heard one.

389
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,680
So yeah, let's as we're coming
nearer to the end of this

390
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,200
fantastic episode, let's let's
talk about our industry as a

391
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,280
whole.
Do you think we talk our

392
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,840
failures in our industry?
I don't.

393
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,280
And especially when you look at
LinkedIn these days in the PPC

394
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,400
world, it's all about amazing
tests.

395
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,000
It's case studies, it's ROAS
going up, it's this, that and

396
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,160
the other.
And what perhaps people don't

397
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,480
show is behind the scenes.
There's ten other tests that

398
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,520
were of complete flop, but
actually over the scale of 12

399
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,280
months, things are looking
great, which obviously makes

400
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,480
sense.
So no, people definitely don't

401
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,280
talk about it enough, but it
definitely happens.

402
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,480
It's like the sort of the
Instagram models of the world

403
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,480
where you see this perfect life
behind the scenes.

404
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,000
There's arguments, there's loads
of other sort of messier stuff

405
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,600
that's in play that makes up a
good overall account.

406
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,680
So failures, yeah, are
definitely happening.

407
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,840
We just don't see enough of
them.

408
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,400
And I think people don't talk
about it enough either because

409
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,160
it's it's liberating in a way,
talking about failure because

410
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,360
you help other people learn as
well what challenges and that

411
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,720
you've come across what mistakes
they should not make.

412
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,640
And particularly for people
coming into the PPC industry,

413
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,800
there are so many things that
you could trip up over so

414
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,520
easily.
One of the first things I've

415
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,640
tripped over, which I know so
many people do to this day is

416
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,400
the location settings on Google
where it's presence or

417
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,600
interesting.
And if you haven't got it into

418
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,920
presence only then you could
potentially be showing anywhere

419
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,440
in the world for that reason.
So it's just little tricks like

420
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,880
that.
I think people need to be aware

421
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,080
of them.
People need to be sharing their

422
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,280
failures and more people will do
a better job then.

423
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,400
Amazing.
And another question that I some

424
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,200
of my other guests have gone, I
know what are you asking here?

425
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,760
We'll give it a shot.
Is there a Safeway to fail in

426
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,200
digital marketing cannot have
touched on it.

427
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,320
Is it always risky or but or is
there like a Safeway to do it?

428
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,960
Though it is risky because
you're playing with real money,

429
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,080
whether that's a client's money
or your business's money.

430
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,120
If I was to say, is there a
Safeway, I'd probably be

431
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,040
thinking about how I might apply
that maybe to if I set up my own

432
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,840
business and I just wanted to
test a few pounds myself, Maybe

433
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,800
I could test that in my own, my
own Google Ads account rather

434
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,080
than an ads account that's
spending 200 grand a month.

435
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,160
So maybe think about a passion
project or a mate's website or a

436
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,400
local charity or just someone
that you know that you feel that

437
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,440
you get really good results for
them, but maybe they're spending

438
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,080
not as much money and you just
want to test a few things.

439
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,520
That's probably the safest way
to fail, because wasting 100 lbs

440
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,320
is always.
Less risky than wasting 100,000

441
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,680
lbs.
So I'd always do it that way.

442
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,600
Naturally, the bigger the
account, the faster you're going

443
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,280
to get results.
But particularly if you're in

444
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,520
your early days and you're just
looking to fail in a safe

445
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,760
environment, I would say try it.
Try it on a kind of a smaller

446
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,400
account and always just get
people to spot you or spot other

447
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:38,800
people.
It's very much like

448
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,440
weightlifting.
You've always got a the big

449
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,200
heavy task.
It's always good to have someone

450
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,480
looking over to you.
Make sure you're doing that

451
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,040
right.
Amazing, that sounds great.

452
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,320
And one one question that as
well that I didn't give you to

453
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,120
prep for.
I hope that works out in both

454
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,440
our favours, but will definitely
work in the listeners favours.

455
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,640
AII feel like we always need to.
We are not done with talking

456
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,000
about AI.
And what I really love about the

457
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,960
fact that I'm going to be
speaking to so many different

458
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,520
people on this podcast is now
we're going to get so many

459
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,160
different views of it about it.
And since we are talking about

460
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,360
vibes and mistakes, I imagine
work working with clients with

461
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:21,960
can do and even possibly even
like on air, you've seen some

462
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,600
that is not how you use AI guys.
And what are you doing can like

463
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,400
what would you say is the
biggest effort that you see when

464
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,120
like you've witnessed or maybe
even you've experienced of

465
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,600
implementing AI?
For me, it's about all the stuff

466
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,840
that is very customer facing
that AI seems to be a do a great

467
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,840
job, but when you look at it,
put something to check TPT or

468
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,480
spit it out.
But actually when it's very

469
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,440
customer facing, it's very
obvious that it's been written

470
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,360
by a robot.
So I can tell pretty instantly

471
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:52,680
and I think a lot of people will
as well.

472
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,720
If you could tell ad copy on
Google ads being anything that's

473
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,560
been done by ChatGPT, you look
at the dashes, for example, the

474
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,880
capitalisation, the way it says
things is very kind of robot

475
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,400
esque.
And I think the real opportunity

476
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,240
APC ads and advertising in
general is to have a brand tone

477
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,720
of voice.
I'm a huge fan of AI, but I

478
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,080
don't necessarily think it's
great for just ad copy and

479
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,200
things that are customer
focused.

480
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,440
You need to say those things in
the way that you would coming

481
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,000
out of your mouth or your
brand's mouth.

482
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,920
Where AI really has that
superpower is the back end

483
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,280
stuff.
So creating those bridges

484
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,520
audience research and definitely
informing creative and copy, but

485
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,840
not necessarily just copying and
pasting from ChatGPT or

486
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,120
complexity into Google Ads.
That's definitely not the way to

487
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,120
go.
And I've seen so many people do

488
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,000
that because they think it can
save loads of time.

489
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,880
Actually in the long term it'll
probably damage their brand,

490
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,800
it'll lower their CTRS and you
can you'll be able to spot it a

491
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,840
mile off as well.
Yeah.

492
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,360
So, yeah, the whole client
facing stuff, the things that

493
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,280
your customers, the things like
your customers are going to see,

494
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,360
Yeah, that's what you shouldn't
be using AI for.

495
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,600
And I totally agree with that.
You know what I've said in in

496
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,320
previous episodes is the fact
that AI should be like your

497
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,640
junior PA.
The source should be you.

498
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,960
The source shouldn't just be
like random Internet and then

499
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,000
just, yeah, give me something
that you think from the Internet

500
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,280
I should use on my website that
never, I personally think that

501
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,360
never works.
Chris, this has been such a

502
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,000
great chat.
Thank you so much for being on

503
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,160
the podcast today.
But before you leave us, I've

504
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,600
got a nice fun question for you.
There's not quite PPC or AI

505
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,120
focus.
If your PPC career were a movie,

506
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,800
what would the title be?
Yeah, so this is a really good

507
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,000
question.
And I think for me, it's always

508
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,560
for a lot of my clients now
they're not spending millions

509
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,280
and millions a month on on ads
and and for me, it's always that

510
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,040
David and guide situation a
little bit.

511
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,200
So for me, if it's a career,
PBC, if it was a movie about my

512
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,040
career right now, I'd probably
say it's called like Outsmart,

513
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,680
not Outspend, because it's all
about how to outsmart the

514
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,800
competition and not just spend
more money than AI.

515
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,120
As you can imagine now is
putting everyone in that kind of

516
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,120
level, evil level playing field,
so to speak.

517
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,240
So there's got to be other ways
around strategy and audience,

518
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,640
like loads of other things
outside of just spending that

519
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,400
you can actually get that step
ahead.

520
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,320
So that's all.
What I'm focused on now is to

521
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,640
help my clients really beat the
big boys without just trying to

522
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,200
spend more money than them.
So yeah, outsmart.

523
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,640
Don't outspend, not outspend.
Fantastic.

524
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,800
I love it.
Thank you so much for that,

525
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,160
Chris.
As I said earlier on, you're

526
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,320
very much active on the
community, so where can you know

527
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,280
people want to learn more about
paid search or maybe even want

528
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,360
to employ your services?
Where will they be able to find

529
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:35,880
you?
Yeah, yeah.

530
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,480
Thanks for having me.
And the best place to probably

531
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,480
just to be search for Chris
Nightingale or LinkedIn.

532
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,200
I'm sure we'll come up then and
feel free to connect and would

533
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,520
love to share my content.
Amazing.

534
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,080
Thank you so much for that,
Chris.

535
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,080
Thanks for having me, Anna.
Thank you so much, Chris, for

536
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,040
sharing that very honest story
about Early in your career.

537
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,320
And yeah, remember, mistakes
happen.

538
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,800
If you have someone who has
never made a mistake, you're

539
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,000
probably not testing enough and
you're probably not pushing the

540
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,560
boundaries hard enough.
So don't be scared to try

541
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,840
something new.
Don't be scared with all the new

542
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,200
updates that are coming out.
You don't have to test

543
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,000
everything.
Don't be panicked about testing

544
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,800
everything.
But yeah, go out and make sure

545
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,680
that you're making your job
interesting by testing new

546
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,360
things and that you are
surrounded by good managers who

547
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:24,520
will lift you up and really help
you out during those situations.

548
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,880
So, yeah, For more information,
more about all that we've talked

549
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,360
about and the full transcript of
this episode, please go to

550
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:34,880
podcast dot PPC dot live.
Of course.

551
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,160
Now going on to a little bit of
an update about PPC Live as a

552
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,040
whole.
Our next event is June 26th and

553
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,960
that's happening in Leeds, UK
for those who are of that way.

554
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,080
So yeah, I would love to have
you there.

555
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,800
Tickets are live on PPC dot
live.

556
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,960
Just go and check that out.
We're still on early bird ticket

557
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,600
sales right now, so please do
check that out for anyone who's

558
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,400
up there.
We'd love to have you.

559
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,200
Before I leave, I'm delighted to
say that I'm allowing time by

560
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,360
time to be booked for some
coaching calls with people.

561
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,400
So just go to
themarketingannual.com.

562
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,120
Give me as much information as
needed before the calls.

563
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:15,720
I'm well prepared to help you to
help reignite your passion for

564
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,000
doing Aid Search.
I hope you have enjoyed the show

565
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,560
and I look forward to bringing
more CF us from our C experts

566
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,120
next week.
Bye now.